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Most of the items on that list run the gamut from pointless posturing to outright idiocy.
Life is neither a Miss Manners column nor a Jane Austen novel - nor should it be.
Most of those things seem unnecessary now, some--downright antiquated. The one that stands out is about seeing the woman to her door. Even if you drop someone off after a date, you should stay in your car until she gets safely inside her house/apt. bldg. Safety still is, and always will be, a primary concern for women.
Most of those things seem unnecessary now, some--downright antiquated. The one that stands out is about seeing the woman to her door. Even if you drop someone off after a date, you should stay in your car until she gets safely inside her house/apt. bldg. Safety still is, and always will be, a primary concern for women.
Good example.
I do not think I ever dropped a woman off and sped off down the street before I knew she was inside.
Not because I was there thinking "I need to stay to be chivalrous" or anything like that.
It was just common courtesy in my mind.
You drop someone off somewhere, you make sure they get in before you leave. Otherwise, you may be leaving them outside if they lost/forgot key, or otherwise have an impediment to getting in.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth
Most of those things seem unnecessary now, some--downright antiquated. The one that stands out is about seeing the woman to her door. Even if you drop someone off after a date, you should stay in your car until she gets safely inside her house/apt. bldg. Safety still is, and always will be, a primary concern for women.
Sure, and other things are just polite offers that are rarely accepted. I've dated a few single mothers with very young children and, especially early on, I've offered to pay for the sitter. They're damn expensive around here (everywhere?) as I don't want going out to be a economic burden. Its never been accepted, but I thought it would be the nice thing to do. Lots of politeness is showing you're thinking of the issue and offering.
A lot of these aren't 'chivalrous,' they're just nice things to do...like listening to a woman, complimenting her and being on time. Those are also all things women should do for their boyfriends/husbands.
Also, not hitting a woman isn't chivalry. It's just the lack of being a violent jerk. No one should be given that much credit for not hitting someone. I mean, it's just common decency.
#5 is silly. Guys are brutish for laughing loudly? I guess it could be obnoxious, but I would never tell a guy I'd rather he didn't laugh because I thought it was "ill-mannered."
Exactly. I was taught some of those things by my parents and older sister/brother when I was a kid, and while some of it was due to the whole gentleman thing...it was mainly because some of those things are just common courtesy when interacting with society and a good idea to be ingrained within you (to the point where you do such things effortlessly without a second thought) once you get out in the real world on your own. People naturally stand out from the pack in positive, attractive ways when they do some of those things...since the majority of people don't.
Anyone who's a rude jerk with no decency is probably going to be widely disliked by both men and women. Several times, I've observed in restaurants where waiters/waitresses and other patrons sneak subtle disapproving glances at some obnoxious or clueless guy at a table with his date or with his friends. Social graces matter.
#5 is going a bit overboard, yes. If something's funny as hell then go ahead and laugh. Laughing, whatever the guy's "style", should be natural...otherwise it's just going to feel awkward and odd to others. BUT...it's also important to be aware of time and place, and that goes for both men and women. Sometimes it's better to tone it down and not draw too much attention to yourself. You don't want to risk embarrassing your date or significant other (or friend, boss, etc.). Particularly when attending a special occasion where you're just supposed to be a guest, and not the center of attention.
#1 and #21 are pretty outdated these days. I've only observed #1 with men in their 50s and older.
Why is it one-sided? Should I be pulling out the guy's chair for him? Sometimes you can do something just for the sake of being nice without expecting anything in return. For example, I would hold the door for anyone who was behind me. That's being polite not to let the door slam in someone's face.
The fact that you asked in that context shows exactly why. You even touch in it later in your post regarding opening the door. If you would do it for anybody, then it's polite/good manners. If you feel that guys should do it for women and not the other way around, then it's something else.
There's a difference between chivalrous and polite, and to equate the two is erroneous, in my opinion, because to do so would imply that women are not polite. Consider the context of: "I think guys should do X, because it's polite". If you wouldn't do X, then that implies that you're not polite. I hope that makes sense.
So you'd hold the door open for anyone. That's polite.
Walking a woman to the door? That's accepted as being one-sided, because a man is generally better suited to defend a woman from an attacker than the other way around. So it's the kind of polite/good manners that wouldn't expect a similar gesture.
But some of those on the list shouldn't be referred to as "polite", unless you also mean to imply that women aren't polite.
A friend posted this list on FB about gentleman/chivalry and associated . After reading that list, good God! I've never seen such desperate thirsty crap all to please a woman in my life. Thank God this stuff is dying. Most of the list just screams thirsty and desperate.
Good grief, most of these things are just common decency and living in a civilized society. I don't see them necessarily as things men do for women. It may have begun that way but as a woman I do many of these things for others, especially the ones I really care about. Being a woman I do many of these things for children to protect them, for elders, pregnant women, disabled or more vulnerable people to help them out and for men to be a decent, respectful civilized person.
Personally I hope it never dies. I attended a class with my grandson and noticed him holding the door for some women and an older gentleman. He shook the hand and thanked the man who put on the class. I'd much rather see him behave in this manner than as some teens I saw rushing out past adults letting the door slam in their face.
The way I see it, women can either live in a post-feminist, career-minded, able-bodied, empowered world, or they can have chivalry... but they can't have both.
It seems my attitude hasn't put off at least one woman in the world.
I give up my seat for the elderly, the disabled and the pregnant, but not for able-bodied women. I think they'd be creeped out by it, to be honest.
Picking up the check is not going to happen unless I know for a fact she can't afford it. That might have been okay when women couldn't get jobs so easily, but these days it seems more like a penis tax than a practical or even romantic gesture.
Holding the door is something I used to do for everyone, at least before I moved to a city. I have since realized not everyone does this, but letting it slam in someone's face just doesn't seem okay whether they're a man or woman.
I mean, we're all still living in a society and it's good to acknowledge that other people exist, but chivalry was as much about infantilizing and coddling women as it was about all of the nostalgic romanticism attached to it.
You know how race threads, height threads, etc are forbidden. .....why can't we band sexist threads it really would solve many problems, mods?
I don't support banning anything. If someone comes in with sexist views and we're allowed to have a discussion about it, maybe that person's mindset would change.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,936 posts, read 36,974,024 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spatula City
The way I see it, women can either live in a post-feminist, career-minded, able-bodied, empowered world, or they can have chivalry... but they can't have both.
Why not? Two completely different arenas.
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. After reading that list, good God! I've never seen such desperate thirsty crap all to please a woman in my life. Thank God this stuff is dying. Most of the list just screams thirsty and desperate.