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when I said society dictates, I come from a time when it did dictate, silently that women should marry and hang diapers on the wash line.
It was born and bred into us....and when you dated, you were asked when your getting married and so forth. I've talked with a lot of men who said this had happened to them. That they got married b/c it was expected of them to do so.
Today's world is fortunately changing....and young people are not as much under pressure to get married. Thank goodness......
I don't think it's changed all that much. In college (2000-2005) it seemed that a lot of girls were looking for their Mrs. Degree. Since college I've been amazed at how fast both men and women move in relationships. Within less than six months I hear people talking about marriage.
I don't think it's changed all that much. In college (2000-2005) it seemed that a lot of girls were looking for their Mrs. Degree. Since college I've been amazed at how fast both men and women move in relationships. Within less than six months I hear people talking about marriage.
well, lets put it this way, when I was young, we girls didn't think about college, our next step after graduation was to marry our boyfriends. (ugh) believe it!
I've seen less younger people getting married...and more singles of late...which is a good thing....
you don't have to be a couple to be in love...live, love and enjoy life first....there are so many gifts out there to experience.
If someone should ever approach me 'with love in her eyes and flowers in her hair', I will most likely tell her to look elsewhere for the kind of man she wants and no doubt deserves. Her only mistake would be to think it's me.
Have you ever been given a gift you were very thankful for but had no idea what to do with? That would be my reaction if ever I found out someone had feelings for me. I don't have the emotional availability or experience to deal with that sort of thing, and any attempt would leave me bewildered and her disappointed.
I feel the same way as well. Repped!
I wouldn't want to be approached by a woman "with love in her eyes and flowers in her hair", either. It puts too much pressure and obligation on me, while giving me too little to make it worthwhile. If she had enough in common with me, like being a beer drinker and a rail fan, I'd extend the hand of friendship, while making it clear in no uncertain terms that nothing more will ever happen.
On top of that, at my age, I have a valid reason to worry that the aforementioned woman wants to be with me for the wrong reasons: because of the comfort and stability I can offer, rather than because she finds me sexy and exciting.
This is only true for promotions into upper management, like Vice President, and maybe Director. Definitely for C-level Officers. Because relationship'ed = normal, of course . It's not really true for positions like Team Lead or even Manager. And honestly, I don't have much use for working such a high-level position and the income it brings in. It's just unnecessary stress and having to be reachable 24/7 on my freaking cell phone. When I can just come in, put in my 8 hours, go home, drink at Moe's ("Simpsons" reference), and enjoy my life. Because without a wife who insists on fancy gifts 10+ times a year (Christmas, birthday, Valentine's Day, Sweetest Day, anniversary, grovel gifts, and "just because" gifts), $100-a-plate romantic dinners, $300-a-night vacations at Sandals, and a mortgage on a McMansion to appease her, I can easily save at least $20,000 a year. Which renders really high income unnecessary, except becoming eligible for Trump's tax cuts for the rich. Plus, nowadays, you get only get promoted through nepotism, anyway.
I can't imagine, for the life of me, "forming a bond" with someone who berates me for hours over dumb crap, like leaving dirty socks on the floor, wanting a beer at dinner, or playing Cards Against Humanity with a friendly group. Or conversely, her bonding with someone who leaves messes, drinks beer, and plays Cards Against Humanity . So I think the "bonding" is mostly due to social pressure and/or wanting to advance one's career. Even more so: I read somewhere that berating someone over trivial matters (like the socks) is a test. It doesn't say if it's done cognitively or subconsciously. But people do it to see how well the other person stands their ground. If you don't pass the test, the berating intensifies next time. So again, it's a slap in the face for me to "bond" with someone, only to later have them test me.
My gosh, you've listed every negative stereotype I can imagine here, you let this stuff define your relationship to women? I'm sorry.
This whole discussion reminds me of similar discussions about, say, drinking alcohol, where you have two kinds of people who don't drink. One person simply says, "Nah, it's never really been my thing so I just don't imbibe." And the other person (who has probably never/rarely drank), foams at the mouth about DEMON RUM, and how everyone who drinks turns into an alcoholic, and how it never leads to any good, etc.
when I said society dictates, I come from a time when it did dictate, silently that women should marry and hang diapers on the wash line.
I am not missing the point. "Time" has not changed. Many people feel that they have to follow some kind of rules. You see it on this board all the time. What "should" a man do? What "should" a woman do? Blah blah. The fact is that there are people who let these "norms" control them. They will never ever, no matter the time or place, find the same peace, happiness, self esteem and contentment as someone who can make judgements for themselves.
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It was born and bred into us
Society is so vastly different over time it was clearly not "born" into anyone. As for bred, it is remarkable how many people bucked the trends, achieved satisfaction and paved new ways for many of us.
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....and when you dated, you were asked when your getting married and so forth. I've talked with a lot of men who said this had happened to them. That they got married b/c it was expected of them to do so.
And it is nothing short of miraculous good luck if they wound up happy, satisfied and fulfilled. That a person DOES a thing does not make it a good thing to do. So I stand by my statement that if you let society dictate to you, you are hosed already.
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Today's world is fortunately changing....and young people are not as much under pressure to get married. Thank goodness......
No. They are under different pressures. And I maintain that those who are not thoughtful, confident and smart enough to decide for themselves what to do with their lives, they are likewise hosed already.
somebodynew I am not missing the point. "Time" has not changed. Many people feel that they have to follow some kind of rules. You see it on this board all the time. What "should" a man do? What "should" a woman do? Blah blah. The fact is that there are people who let these "norms" control them. They will never ever, no matter the time or place, find the same peace, happiness, self esteem and contentment as someone who can make judgements for themselves.
I'm 68 how old are you??????? In my day, girls didn't go to college, but then I grew up in a very small town...we got married....that was just how it was done. It was a farm town...wasn't much else to do with our lives, except get a job in a local store, or mill.
and yes, we did allow life and pressure from our parents to get married, pressure from relatives, society back then was different. And I'm sooooo glad it changed.
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Society is so vastly different over time it was clearly not "born" into anyone. As for bred, it is remarkable how many people bucked the trends, achieved satisfaction and paved new ways for many of us.
It was a phrase, like "the honeymoon's over". It was born into us.
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And it is nothing short of miraculous good luck if they wound up happy, satisfied and fulfilled. That a person DOES a thing does not make it a good thing to do. So I stand by my statement that if you let society dictate to you, you are hosed already.
then we agree to disagree.
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No. They are under different pressures. And I maintain that those who are not thoughtful, confident and smart enough to decide for themselves what to do with their lives, they are likewise hosed already.
Hello....I said, kids today are NOT under the same pressures, they seem to be more independent, both boys and girls.....
I'm 68 how old are you??????? In my day, girls didn't go to college,
I'm only 48. But my Mom is 82. Girls "didn't" when she was young either. Yet somehow she did.
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but then I grew up in a very small town...we got married....that was just how it was done. It was a farm town...wasn't much else to do with our lives, except get a job in a local store, or mill.
Or... move to a new town. Or ... a bazillion other things. Of course not everyone does this. People have bad reasons for doing all sorts of things. Being a lemming and doing what everyone else does does not make it a good idea. If what a person wants is the stability of being "married" because that is what everyone does, then sure. But people found/find themselves wanting that love thing that is not part of this societal "expectation". You marry for expectation, then that is all you are going to get.
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and yes, we did allow life and pressure from our parents to get married, pressure from relatives, society back then was different. And I'm sooooo glad it changed.
I don't see it. The goal post has just changed. Sure "society" is not pressuring people to get married anymore. But "society" certainly pressured my trans BIL not to be trans. "Society pressures" USians to pursue stem careers or other money makers rather than pursuing their dreams. "Society" will always "pressure" to think as little as possible as with the lowest common denominator. People who know who they are and what they want will simply always make better decisions.
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Hello....I said, kids today are NOT under the same pressures, they seem to be more independent, both boys and girls.....
Right. They are under pressures. Just DIFFERENT pressures. If they choose to let "society dictate" how they live their lives. I continue to contend that that is not the healthiest thing on which to make a choice.
Let me try this with a metaphor. When I go to the beach, the waves are an actual external force that acts upon me to pressure me into into either the shore or the rip tide. Society has no such external force. The only force it has is that which we lend it by our feelings. When we choose to use that as a reason to choose marriage (or not following our true selves) then we are stuck with what we chose. That is not a healthy thing to base a choice on in my view.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,936 posts, read 36,974,024 times
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Originally Posted by cremebrulee
I'm 68 how old are you??????? In my day, girls didn't go to college, but then I grew up in a very small town...we got married....that was just how it was done. It was a farm town...wasn't much else to do with our lives, except get a job in a local store, or mill.
Oh please, my mother is 78 with two master's degrees, my aunt an MD from Yale (yes, she was only one of two women in her med school class, but whatever... she is 78 as well), and every woman of that generation in my family has atleast a bachelors. This is hogwash .
Last edited by timberline742; 03-07-2017 at 01:06 PM..
Reason: miscounted my aunt's bday
Oh please, my mother is 78 with two master's degrees, my aunt an MD from Yale (yes, she was only one of two women in her med school class, but whatever), and every woman of that generation in my family has atleast a bachelors. This is hogwash .
yeah, that might have been true for my grandmother's generation, but my mom is 80 and she has a college degree. She did say I was lucky, because in her day you could major only in Liberal Arts, Education, Nursing, or Secretarial courses. Other women at other universities might have had more options, but things were changing by the 50s, at least.
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. It's not really true for positions like Team Lead or even Manager. And honestly, I don't have much use for working such a high-level position and the income it brings in. It's just unnecessary stress and having to be reachable 24/7 on my freaking cell phone. When I can just come in, put in my 8 hours, go home, drink at Moe's ("Simpsons" reference), and enjoy my life. Because without a wife who insists on fancy gifts 10+ times a year (Christmas, birthday, Valentine's Day, Sweetest Day, anniversary, grovel gifts, and "just because" gifts), $100-a-plate romantic dinners, $300-a-night vacations at Sandals, and a mortgage on a McMansion to appease her, I can easily save at least $20,000 a year. Which renders really high income unnecessary, except becoming eligible for Trump's tax cuts for the rich. Plus, nowadays, you get only get promoted through nepotism, anyway.
. So I think the "bonding" is mostly due to social pressure and/or wanting to advance one's career. Even more so: I read somewhere that berating someone over trivial matters (like the socks) is a test. It doesn't say if it's done cognitively or subconsciously. But people do it to see how well the other person stands their ground. If you don't pass the test, the berating intensifies next time. So again, it's a slap in the face for me to "bond" with someone, only to later have them test me.
