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Women don't want attention from men they don't want. At all. No, it is NOT fun to have Grampa Creeper or Mr. D Pic breathing at you. Not in the slightest. Are you grateful when you get attention from totally unappealing women breathing on you and making creepy jokes and texting you pics of anything that sags, bags or falls out?
I didn't say they were appealing options. I actually feel sorry for women at times when i'm in a bar and there's guys coming up to them every 5 minutes all night and they're in a committed relationship, or if they're single and being approached by real creeps.
But it's like the reverse of the numbers game for men. Men have to approach a lot of women deemed half way appealing to get anywhere, on average. A woman may need to be approached by a lot of men to find one she likes if she's not willing to do what men have to and put the hard yards in to approach. I'm not saying it's ideal for either but the bottom line is women have more options by the sheer scale of men that approach if they put themselves out there (bars, pubs, clubs, OLD etc)
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Originally Posted by JerZ
Including the craggy alcoholic? Come on now. I've been to bars. I've seen which women "get attention." If she's at least cute, sure. Or at the very, very least, not totally unattractive. If not, well...nope. She's drinking alone. Plus, so what? She's still an option, for you.
Depends on the male/female ratio in the bar. If it's a D-fest (or she's the only girl available) then guys will be vying for her.
I didn't say they were appealing options. I actually feel sorry for women at times when i'm in a bar and there's guys coming up to them every 5 minutes all night and they're in a committed relationship, or if they're single and being approached by real creeps.
I didn't say your options were appealing either. I just said: you have them. Remember, being appealing isn't a qualifier, according to you (as confirmed above). So your unappealing options negate the assertion that men just don't have options, or don't have enough, etc. They're out there. Go get 'em, tiger!
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Originally Posted by gazzaa2
But it's like the reverse of the numbers game for men. Men have to approach a lot of women to get anywhere, on average. A woman may need to be approached by a lot of men to find one she likes.
Yes, or rather: a woman may need to have relationships to find out whom she really wants, just as a man will. In addition, women do approach.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gazzaa2
I'm not saying it's ideal for either but the bottom line is women have more options by the sheer scale of men that approach if they put themselves out there (bars, pubs, clubs, OLD etc).
No. Being approached by MORE *totally untenable* options does not equate to more *options*, full stop. If you get a glass of water, and your friend gets a glass of water, and you have both had enough but somebody holds you down and attempts to pour more water down your throat and the water tastes just plain gross, can your friend accurately say "it's not fair, I never get water"? And are you so much luckier than your friend because, hey, look...more water? Therefore, more opportunity to feel satisfied and enjoy water? The water is gross, plus you're over-full. How is this in any way a boon?
The way I see it is... There is this description of men doing all this approaching, right? Let's take perspective out of it first and simply paint the picture. In some meat market type location where singles are known to be cruising, you have bunches of single dudes of all levels of quality, hitting on women probably starting at the hottest ones they are confident enough to even talk to without having an aneurysm, and if they fail there, they might either cast about for another target, perhaps eventually being "desperate" enough for the 50-year-old drunken chain smoker with the badly dyed hair who is there at closing...and perhaps not. OK. And most of the guys are doing this. The good, the bad, and the ugly.
Thus goes the "numbers game" of the indiscriminate male, who is mostly interested in the appearances of his targets, and not much more. Okie dokie.
Now if you are a guy, and you're going to complain, "Women have all these OPTIONS" but then also complain, "Men have to approach and play a numbers game" then what you are describing are two sides of the exact same picture. And guess who is doing a behavior here, who is active in this situation and who is passive? Because a woman, she might just be standing there, but the guys are ACTIVELY doing these approaches which evidently cause this horrible and unfair situation. What if she doesn't even want to get laid or find a date? What if she's just there to have a laugh with her friends? Why is she obligated to put in some effort to help a man she's never met get his goal of sex or love met? Why on earth is she supposed to care? Yet the guy, who is often complaining about all this, is the one doing the action to keep it happening. What would happen if guys just...stopped? Some men would say, the human species would die out, but I don't think so. In social groups where aggressive male approach strategies are strongly discouraged, we see plenty of women actually initiating conversations and interactions with men.
But in the scene I described...the women get to be lazy. They don't have to pursue.
I honestly don't have a total lack of compassion for men in all of this, mostly because I'm a bisexual woman. But I've had way more male partners, because men make this EASY. If I'm available, there are always men I know I can have. But that crush I have on a woman, even if I know she is also bi, and even if she also flirts with me, and I'm pretty sure she would not turn me down...for some reason we almost never wind up dating or having sex. It's really rare. Because I feel like we're both kind of circling each other with these gentle "hints" and waiting for one to do the more masculine behavior of pushing the interaction to another level, and....neither of us knows who is supposed to be the one to do that. So no one does. It's a little bit ridiculous sometimes.
I mean, I guess I get it...but isn't everybody kinda complicit in this ongoing game people play? Unless they opt out, even at the possible cost of continuing solitude?
10 man? What 10 men? Show me 10 men. There are no 10 men. There aren't even 2 men. Get over yourself, MM. You're not plugged into the reality of average women.
This is so true. Lol, where are all these men? I’m reasonably attractive and the only men who approach me are transients asking for money outside of stores or gas stations.😒
This is so true. Lol, where are all these men? I’m reasonably attractive and the only men who approach me are transients asking for money outside of stores or gas stations.😒
May we see a picture of this "reasonably attractive" woman you are speaking of?
Now if you are a guy, and you're going to complain, "Women have all these OPTIONS" but then also complain, "Men have to approach and play a numbers game" then what you are describing are two sides of the exact same picture. And guess who is doing a behavior here, who is active in this situation and who is passive? Because a woman, she might just be standing there, but the guys are ACTIVELY doing these approaches which evidently cause this horrible and unfair situation. What if she doesn't even want to get laid or find a date? What if she's just there to have a laugh with her friends? Why is she obligated to put in some effort to help a man she's never met get his goal of sex or love met? Why on earth is she supposed to care? Yet the guy, who is often complaining about all this, is the one doing the action to keep it happening. What would happen if guys just...stopped? Some men would say, the human species would die out, but I don't think so. In social groups where aggressive male approach strategies are strongly discouraged, we see plenty of women actually initiating conversations and interactions with men.
This is also why it's a lot harder for men to approach than women (Who don't have to approach) tend to appreciate. They can be approaching women who don't want to give him the time of day because she doesn't want to be approached. Most guys don't want to bother women unless she's interested in him. Even if a guy picks up on a subtlety or an expression of interest, chances are the woman was just being friendly or sociable, but it's then up to the guy whether to direct approach and again risk the rejection. He can decide not to and then kick himself the rest of the night for not following it up because he wasn't sure.
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Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork
But in the scene I described...the women get to be lazy. They don't have to pursue.
That's the thing though. Women are happy with things as they are where it's the men who have to put the graft in with approaching and risk being blown off. Men have to 'man up' and approach or stay celibate. Women can sit back and be passive and wait for the approaches but will then have to sift through what approaches occur, like an employer going through job applications.
If women don't like the approaches they're getting, they can do what men have to do and approach guys themselves. That is another 'option'.
This is so true. Lol, where are all these men? I’m reasonably attractive and the only men who approach me are transients asking for money outside of stores or gas stations.��
Yeah, the guys who say this seem to be universally picturing hot women at meat market nightclubs--do those women get approached all the time? Yes, of course. Do women who work at public-facing customer service jobs get hit on? Yes, they do.
They're not seeing the normal women, who maybe don't ever go to nightclubs, who are not approached by dozens of men as they navigate their days in the office, walking their dogs, running errands, going to yoga and book club, etc. It just doesn't happen to the extent they say it does.
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Remember, being appealing isn't a qualifier, according to you (as confirmed above). So your unappealing options negate the assertion that men just don't have options, or don't have enough, etc. They're out there. Go get 'em, tiger!