Should this be considered a Test or a straight up insult? (marriage, female)
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If you'd been with this person for years, why would she all of a sudden start "testing" you or manipulating you, where there had been no such behavior before? Maybe you misinterpreted the situation. I agree with the others, that this idea that women "test" men is mostly an artifact of the internet and bitter bro blogs, and the few real cases of it chalk up to teen or other immature women.
But in view of this post:
I'm wondering why you're rehashing something in the fairly distant past, anyway. If you're happily married, why post about one moment in a former relationship at all? Are you loosing sleep over this, or something? I doubt it. What's up with that?
About the latter: he wasn't married--happily or otherwise--to the woman in question, but she *was* married when the two of them began hooking up. She still might be for all we know. Given how things roll here on CDR, I wouldn't doubt that she still is married.
The O.P.'s issues with her go far deeper than her wanting to go to see a show where her ex would be performing. Even so, he has no right to dictate what she does and who she sees socially--especially as he was a willing partner in helping her to cheat on her husband.
I don't really understand why so many here seem to think OP was necessarily out of line for being touchy about his girlfriend going to an event by her ex huh...
Granted I don't know how the discussion happened but it's actually quite ok for someone to tell their partner when their actions are making them uncomfortable in that realm. Sometimes people don't realize how their actions are reasonably perceived.
The whole ”well the problem is that you don't trust your partner” gimmick is unicorn thinking. It's not actually good advice to tell people the proper way to live their life and assess the people around them is through blind trust. When something suggestive is happening, it's worth paying attention.
Setting boundaries, they call it. Hanging out with an ex and as in this case, insisting that this be done in the absence of the current partner, can be an abuse of the trust your partner has in you. As is the case every time you put yourself in situations that ostensibly create room for speculation to which the only brake is your partner's trust.
And that's not some extremist incel doctrine I just cooked up. Go to any couple's counselor and you'll hear these metaphores about trust being like a bank account, how doing things that solicit trust (like hanging out with an ex, spending an evening alone with a friend of the opposite sex, etc.) inevitably withdraw from the account and if done too much, will eventually empty it, etc. This idea is common, and quite pragmatic.
A partner who respects you doesn't just go around doing their thing and expecting to have to show zero accountability to you for what they do. You're supposed to actually care that something you're doing is seemingly going to damage your partner's trust in you, and negotiate for solutions together. To me, the reflexive call to misogyny there could very well have been a cheap manipulative tactic to get the guy off her back. I'd be even more suspicious once that happened: the whole ”how dare you think this” and retaliation to put the other person on the defensive is basically textbook manipulation. Shaming and changing the topic.
Again, trust isn't a magical thing that you just wish into existence, and no, it's not a rational thing to do for a grown adult to disregard the way your partner is setting (or not) boundaries with others. And yes it's perfectly ok to be honest about your discomfort when your partner does something that you think is out of line.
Who here would accept that their partner, say, announce they're going on a week long trip in a beach resort with their ex, and without you? I mean, obviously if you disagree with this you're a control freak and you should be trusting your partner, no?
I don't really understand why so many here seem to think OP was necessarily out of line for being touchy about his girlfriend going to an event by her ex huh...
Granted I don't know how the discussion happened but it's actually quite ok for someone to tell their partner when their actions are making them uncomfortable in that realm. Sometimes people don't realize how their actions are reasonably perceived.
The whole ”well the problem is that you don't trust your partner” gimmick is unicorn thinking. It's not actually good advice to tell people the proper way to live their life and assess the people around them is through blind trust. When something suggestive is happening, it's worth paying attention.
Setting boundaries, they call it. Hanging out with an ex and as in this case, insisting that this be done in the absence of the current partner, can be an abuse of the trust your partner has in you. As is the case every time you put yourself in situations that ostensibly create room for speculation to which the only brake is your partner's trust.
And that's not some extremist incel doctrine I just cooked up. Go to any couple's counselor and you'll hear these metaphores about trust being like a bank account, how doing things that solicit trust (like hanging out with an ex, spending an evening alone with a friend of the opposite sex, etc.) inevitably withdraw from the account and if done too much, will eventually empty it, etc. This idea is common, and quite pragmatic.
A partner who respects you doesn't just go around doing their thing and expecting to have to show zero accountability to you for what they do. You're supposed to actually care that something you're doing is seemingly going to damage your partner's trust in you, and negotiate for solutions together. To me, the reflexive call to misogyny there could very well have been a cheap manipulative tactic to get the guy off her back. I'd be even more suspicious once that happened: the whole ”how dare you think this” and retaliation to put the other person on the defensive is basically textbook manipulation. Shaming and changing the topic.
Again, trust isn't a magical thing that you just wish into existence, and no, it's not a rational thing to do for a grown adult to disregard the way your partner is setting (or not) boundaries with others. And yes it's perfectly ok to be honest about your discomfort when your partner does something that you think is out of line.
Who here would accept that their partner, say, announce they're going on a week long trip in a beach resort with their ex, and without you? I mean, obviously if you disagree with this you're a control freak and you should be trusting your partner, no?
I think that if you are in a side relationship with a married woman (I'm assuming she wasn't actually like firmly separated and in the process of a divorce or anything, given other posts in this thread, she was cheating on her husband with the OP is what I'm reading)... Then you don't have a "bank account of trust" you've got like...a payday loan. You start in the negative, it's a pretty bad deal.
Take what you are saying and blend it with what I was saying about needing my partner to trust me to conduct my friendships as I see fit. I do need that from him, but I also do have boundaries that don't set things up to "oh just whoops it happened" behind his back. I need him to trust me, but that means that I'm gonna need to be deserving of it.
As it happens I am close friends with a few former partners. "Ex" is not the right word for it, we did not so much break up like most people do as we evolved into friendship because that was the more natural state for the connection. And I will spend time with them when I can, alone or not, and my husband doesn't worry about it. But they are not the kind of people who would be trying to scheme their way into bed with me...and they are almost as close as friends to my husband, as they are to me. It isn't even just me he's trusting, because he knows them and trusts them, as I do. Which is also important for healthy friendship. Hell, they were instrumental in helping to plan and execute our wedding!
Some people are very much "once it's sexual, it's always sexual" but not everyone operates that way.
But I think that another reason why I do a bit better than some with these situations is that I don't drink or otherwise muddle my mind with substances. I think that a lot of those "whoops" instances happen when people drink. I find it very easy not to cheat on partners, and I suspect that's at least part of the reason.
If you'd been with this person for years, why would she all of a sudden start "testing" you or manipulating you, where there had been no such behavior before? Maybe you misinterpreted the situation. I agree with the others, that this idea that women "test" men is mostly an artifact of the internet and bitter bro blogs, and the few real cases of it chalk up to teen or other immature women.
But in view of this post:
I'm wondering why you're rehashing something in the fairly distant past, anyway. If you're happily married, why post about one moment in a former relationship at all? Are you loosing sleep over this, or something? I doubt it. What's up with that?
This happened early in the relationship and when I thought she was separated from the husband. Later found out she wasn’t.
This is just something I remembered, not sure why and I wasn’t sure looking back if it was a test or pure manipulation.
From the posts here, tests are not a common thing as I thought. I was wrong. And glad I’m clear now. Thanks.
About the latter: he wasn't married--happily or otherwise--to the woman in question, but she *was* married when the two of them began hooking up. She still might be for all we know. Given how things roll here on CDR, I wouldn't doubt that she still is married.
The O.P.'s issues with her go far deeper than her wanting to go to see a show where her ex would be performing. Even so, he has no right to dictate what she does and who she sees socially--especially as he was a willing partner in helping her to cheat on her husband.
I didn’t know she was still with her husband back then. Granted, I wasn’t able to end things when I found out anyways until recently.
I don't really understand why so many here seem to think OP was necessarily out of line for being touchy about his girlfriend going to an event by her ex huh...
Granted I don't know how the discussion happened but it's actually quite ok for someone to tell their partner when their actions are making them uncomfortable in that realm. Sometimes people don't realize how their actions are reasonably perceived.
The whole ”well the problem is that you don't trust your partner” gimmick is unicorn thinking. It's not actually good advice to tell people the proper way to live their life and assess the people around them is through blind trust. When something suggestive is happening, it's worth paying attention.
Setting boundaries, they call it. Hanging out with an ex and as in this case, insisting that this be done in the absence of the current partner, can be an abuse of the trust your partner has in you. As is the case every time you put yourself in situations that ostensibly create room for speculation to which the only brake is your partner's trust.
And that's not some extremist incel doctrine I just cooked up. Go to any couple's counselor and you'll hear these metaphores about trust being like a bank account, how doing things that solicit trust (like hanging out with an ex, spending an evening alone with a friend of the opposite sex, etc.) inevitably withdraw from the account and if done too much, will eventually empty it, etc. This idea is common, and quite pragmatic.
A partner who respects you doesn't just go around doing their thing and expecting to have to show zero accountability to you for what they do. You're supposed to actually care that something you're doing is seemingly going to damage your partner's trust in you, and negotiate for solutions together. To me, the reflexive call to misogyny there could very well have been a cheap manipulative tactic to get the guy off her back. I'd be even more suspicious once that happened: the whole ”how dare you think this” and retaliation to put the other person on the defensive is basically textbook manipulation. Shaming and changing the topic.
Again, trust isn't a magical thing that you just wish into existence, and no, it's not a rational thing to do for a grown adult to disregard the way your partner is setting (or not) boundaries with others. And yes it's perfectly ok to be honest about your discomfort when your partner does something that you think is out of line.
Who here would accept that their partner, say, announce they're going on a week long trip in a beach resort with their ex, and without you? I mean, obviously if you disagree with this you're a control freak and you should be trusting your partner, no?
Thanks for this post. This is exactly what I believe and how I see things when it comes to trust and relationships. Trust is earned and should be preserved. In this case, all kinds of things ended up going wrong. She wasn’t someone to be trusted I later found out and I also made mistakes in going along with the situation. She was cheating on her husband with me.
I think that if you are in a side relationship with a married woman (I'm assuming she wasn't actually like firmly separated and in the process of a divorce or anything, given other posts in this thread, she was cheating on her husband with the OP is what I'm reading)... Then you don't have a "bank account of trust" you've got like...a payday loan. You start in the negative, it's a pretty bad deal.
Take what you are saying and blend it with what I was saying about needing my partner to trust me to conduct my friendships as I see fit. I do need that from him, but I also do have boundaries that don't set things up to "oh just whoops it happened" behind his back. I need him to trust me, but that means that I'm gonna need to be deserving of it.
As it happens I am close friends with a few former partners. "Ex" is not the right word for it, we did not so much break up like most people do as we evolved into friendship because that was the more natural state for the connection. And I will spend time with them when I can, alone or not, and my husband doesn't worry about it. But they are not the kind of people who would be trying to scheme their way into bed with me...and they are almost as close as friends to my husband, as they are to me. It isn't even just me he's trusting, because he knows them and trusts them, as I do. Which is also important for healthy friendship. Hell, they were instrumental in helping to plan and execute our wedding!
Some people are very much "once it's sexual, it's always sexual" but not everyone operates that way.
But I think that another reason why I do a bit better than some with these situations is that I don't drink or otherwise muddle my mind with substances. I think that a lot of those "whoops" instances happen when people drink. I find it very easy not to cheat on partners, and I suspect that's at least part of the reason.
This is rare but I see why it has worked since they are also friends with your husband. I think that’s key because it seems to be a very transparent relationship.
Im my experience, exes can’t be friends because things always get muddy. I’ve seen exes ruin relationships of people I know when they come back into the picture.
Once an X, ALWAYS an X. Period. No mishy-mashy wishy-washy 'catching up later', or 'hello, been a long time, how are you?', 'reminiscing down memory lane', or any other variation of such BS. Nope, you hurt me - and that is how it was in '99 out of 100' (using the cliche) cases - then you're 'dead' to me.
I'm aware women test men to see if they are strong and they can trust them. I can usually pass them easily. My go to option is to exaggerate what is being said.
Someone I was seeing once told me I'm a misogynist. We were in the middle of an argument because this person wanted to do something that was clearly out of line, something having to do with a "male friend" and this was her way of shaming me into saying ok. I can assure you I'm nothing but that. I was raised by women and love and respect them.
We are told to not let things get to us emotionally or get offended and is best to take these things as tests and pass them. I said to this person that "sure I'm also a criminal and a bum and so and so".
But then I got to thinking that this was really an insult to me and perhaps I should have responded differently.
When does a test go too far? That is my question.
Thanks.
When it's a "test" that's too far already. Be genuine. If you need a test in a relationship, then it's probably not going to work.
I wouldn't get too hung up on what happened. It sounds like it was a good move to get out of that possible relationship. Sounds manipulative. "Test" people strike me as manipulative. Wouldn't want anything to do with those sorts but to kick them and their "tests" to the curb where they belong.
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