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The divorced women I know would have been happy just to find a guy who is honest, it's almost impossible to find a guy with that good trait, never mind the others. Great post, you nailed it!
Are these divorced women any more honest than the men they are seeking? And just how are these men dishonest, in a way that is unique to their gender?
Because I work mostly remotely now, when I am in the office, I am stationed out in the ranks so to speak.
I am surrounded by younger employees, mostly young women. I am flooded with their chit chat and for many, it is the same topic. Young ladies in our office (meaning 25-35) are often talking about their frustration in finding a guy. They also talk about their limitations in what they consider a “good guy”
The keep asking, “Why can’t I find a ‘good guy?’”
You start out at a small disadvantage in that there are more men than women to begin with, but the difference is fairly small.
If you want someone in your general age bracket, then you are cutting things to about 25% of the men. Unless more than +/- 10 years is workable for you. Maybe 15 years older is OK, but 10 years younger is not (only 5 years), so the impact remains about the same. Slightly but not much impact on the odds if you expand the age range some and if you expand it a lot – well ick.
Somewhat less than half the men under 30 are single or uncommitted. So, now you are at 12.5%. Of course, if you expand the age range, or you are older, that number drops substantially (even though many of those married before 30 are getting divorced after 30, still a good number get married for the first time after 30, so it balances out even at older ranges.
It is estimated that roughly 3% of men are gay, asexual, or some other letter that is incompatible with being in a relationship with a woman. 9.5%
One of the most common comments I hear from young women is they will not date short men. Defining short as 5’9” (the national average), you are cutting the population in half again. 4.75% If you define short as shorter, like 5’7” and under then your odds are a tiny bit better. If taller – then your odds go down. I have heard quite a lot of your women say they are not interested in anyone under 6’. That is going to drop your odds by half again or more, but I will ignore that for now.
Many women also say they do not have any interest in men who are self-centered, self-obsessed, or narcissistic, or looking to replace their mother who has always taken care of them. Being generous with the under 30 crowd, this takes out another half, so 2.375% remain. However since most of those are going to be the ones who are married, you better take half again. 1.1375%
Take away other unacceptable traits. Bald, fat, skinny/scrawny, too muscular, too hairy, undereducated (no college), chew or smoke tobacco, foreign culture (especially misogynistic cultures), pot use, drug use, video game player, heavy drinker or alcoholic, doesn’t earn enough, conceited or snobby, hair or eye color, unacceptable habits (spitting, nose picking, farting in public, etc), bad teeth, acne or acne scars, too religious, nor religious enough, simply ugly. . . . Now you are down to a small fraction of 1%, depending on how many of those conditions apply.
Now take away those to whom you are not attractive. The ones who find you too skinny, too fat, too hairy, too plain, overly made up, breasts too small or too large, butt too small, too large, too flat, too round; over or under-educated, hair color, eye color height, too silly, too serious, overly or under religious, too smart/dumb, too OCD or not clean enough, etc. Now you are down to about .001%.
“But I want a guy who will make me laugh” .0005%
You have about 0 % chance of meeting an eligible guy. If by some miracle you find one, you also have to somehow outdo your competition.
Better off playing the lotto. If you win guys will come flocking to you and your odds of winning the lotto are about the same as they are of meeting that magical unicorn – the good guy.
I see this type of breakdown quite a bit, typically done to demonstrate how "delusional" some women can be with their standards. The thing is, most people's standards, including men's, will reduce their pool of acceptable options down to a very small percentage of the population.
We could easily do the same thing for men. Most men don't want date women older than themselves, especially women who are several years older. So for a 35-year old man living in Manhattan, his pool has dipped from 742,634 to 281,406. Now let's say he doesn't want to date too young but he also wants someone who's younger. So he's willing to date women between the ages of 26 and 34. Now he's down to 167,104.
There's one big problem here. Many of these women are married. So now he's down to 118,988.
He's not willing to date a single mother. Now his pool goes down to 108,332.
Most guys don't want a woman who's completely broke. There's usually some minimum salary threshold even if it's not as high as a woman's. So let's say he'll date an art curator making 40K. Now his pool is down to 73,084.
He's college-educated and would like to date someone who's at least spent some time in college, even if they didn't finish. Now he's down to 71,299.
Now he wants someone relatively in-shape. We have to eliminate all statistically overweight and obese women. Now he's done to 48,027.
Now he wants someone who's merely "cute." Let's say he finds 1/3 of the remaining women attractive. Now he's down to 16,009.
Now he wants someone relatively chaste by his standards. We can cut the above number in half.
So he's down to 1% of the female population of Manhattan. Doesn't seem all that realistic, does it? Men need to lower their standards.
I see this type of breakdown quite a bit, typically done to demonstrate how "delusional" some women can be with their standards. The thing is, most people's standards, including men's, will reduce their pool of acceptable options down to a very small percentage of the population.
We could easily do the same thing for men. Most men don't want date women older than themselves, especially women who are several years older. So for a 35-year old man living in Manhattan, his pool has dipped from 742,634 to 281,406. Now let's say he doesn't want to date too young but he also wants someone who's younger. So he's willing to date women between the ages of 26 and 34. Now he's down to 167,104.
There's one big problem here. Many of these women are married. So now he's down to 118,988.
He's not willing to date a single mother. Now his pool goes down to 108,332.
Most guys don't want a woman who's completely broke. There's usually some minimum salary threshold even if it's not as high as a woman's. So let's say he'll date an art curator making 40K. Now his pool is down to 73,084.
He's college-educated and would like to date someone who's at least spent some time in college, even if they didn't finish. Now he's down to 71,299.
Now he wants someone relatively in-shape. We have to eliminate all statistically overweight and obese women. Now he's done to 48,027.
Now he wants someone who's merely "cute." Let's say he finds 1/3 of the remaining women attractive. Now he's down to 16,009.
Now he wants someone relatively chaste by his standards. We can cut the above number in half.
So he's down to 1% of the female population of Manhattan. Doesn't seem all that realistic, does it? Men need to lower their standards.
Where in the world are you getting these statistics from? They seem quite...off.
There are plenty of good guys out there. But most women do not want them because, let's face it, they want someone with actors' looks. You probably are not going to get both looks and nice in a man, though some exists. You trade one for the other. Do you want a nerdy guy who is a good husband, father and supports the family. Or do you want the dude who is an idiot to everyone but doesn't want to work because his dream of being a rock star/ actor / artist / pro baseball player (notice no one's dream is to become the top accountant in a firm). Which guy do you want when you are older. You ain't getting both.
I think most women are in fact looking for good guys, but I think different women have vastly different ideas as to what constitutes a good man. I also would not underestimate the difficulty that women face in trying to ascertain a given guys character. Lots of guys (and women) initially present a very clichéd version of them selves and they may adopt a dating persona when initially trying to meet women out of nervousness, but women just see that dating persona as fake and assume the guy is trying to be a player. So I think it probably is difficult for women to figure out who is and who isn't a good guy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mink57
Are there?
It seems to me that a number of men's ideas about what constitutes a "good guy" isn't all that compatible with what many women think of as a "good guy." A man may (over) look at a man's arrogance as being "normal", where as, a woman may see that man's arrogance as a problem...and want no part of it.
I hear you, some guys are jerks and I agree that the pool of singletons likely is over represented with people who have no business looking for a relationship. That said I also think a given person's ability or inability to find anyone worthwhile to date often has less to do with what is the pool of single men (or women) and more to do with what is going on in their own emotional lives and I would not underestimate that either.
After my then girlfriend cheated on me with her pastor, I was angry at women, I was angry at God, I was angry with myself and I was just plain angry. During this time, I kept interacting with women who were just as screwed up as I was. I was also blaming women for most of my dating difficulties during this period. But here is the thing, dating is competitive and the women with their heads screwed on right could tell that my head wasn't screwed on right then and they correctly wanted nothing to do with me. They spotted the trainwreck that I was at that point in my life and steered clear.
There is a pretty wide range of people out in the dating pool. You can find women looking to save sex for marriage and women who think marriage is an oppressive institution. There are women looking for love and there are women looking for fun, laughs and good times and there are penty of women who really loath men. I think the dating pool is in many respects a rhorshack test where what you find and pursue in the dating pool is often more about what is going on in your own head then what is actually available in the larger dating pool.
I think a lot of the reason people can't find anyone to date is their own baggage and not recognizing it nor taking the time to work through it. So for instance the narcissists and the codependent's tend to find each other and end up with each other. The people with the insecure love attachments tend to pursue the love avoidant and then wonder why they can't find anyone who will love them back.
But I will also say that as I started working on my own issues suddenly the caliber of women that I could date went up immensely. I am not the trainwreck that I was younger when I hadn't sorted through my own issues. I will also say that as I took accountability for my issues it really got a lot easier to find and to date women who had their own lives just much better sorted out. I am not saying I am perfect, but I am better than I was and as I sorted my self out better, I in turn could date women who themselves were just better sorted out.
So if you are a guy who can't find any women to date or you are a woman who can't find any man to date, I am not sure that the best course of action is to assume the problem lies with the other gender. Yes there are some people who are really screwed up, but there are also some really wonderful people out there too and if you can't find them nor spot them, that to me suggests that there might be some stuff you need to sort out in your own life.
LOL. . . Women say that they want a "good guy" but the fact remains that women are attracted to the "bad boys".
I know that for a fact. In my teens, I was that boy that mothers warned their daughters about. (snicker) Had plenty of attention of the "ladies." And I wasn't a jock, muscular, nor any other typical measures of attractiveness women gush about. In fact, I was short, hairy, knock kneed and dumpy.
(Favorite song : Ramblin' Gamblin' Man, by Bob Seeger. "Ain't good looking, but you know I ain't shy
Ain't afraid to look a girl, hey, in the eye
So if you need some loving, and you need it right away
Take a little time out, and maybe I'll stay")
I think a lot of the reason people can't find anyone to date is their own baggage and not recognizing it nor taking the time to work through it. So for instance the narcissists and the codependent's tend to find each other and end up with each other. The people with the insecure love attachments tend to pursue the love avoidant and then wonder why they can't find anyone who will love them back.
But I will also say that as I started working on my own issues suddenly the caliber of women that I could date went up immensely. I am not the trainwreck that I was younger when I hadn't sorted through my own issues. I will also say that as I took accountability for my issues it really got a lot easier to find and to date women who had their own lives just much better sorted out. I am not saying I am perfect, but I am better than I was and as I sorted my self out better, I in turn could date women who themselves were just better sorted out.
So if you are a guy who can't find any women to date or you are a woman who can't find any man to date, I am not sure that the best course of action is to assume the problem lies with the other gender. Yes there are some people who are really screwed up, but there are also some really wonderful people out there too and if you can't find them nor spot them, that to me suggests that there might be some stuff you need to sort out in your own life.
Agree and disagree.
I have major issues that make me a bad mate, but most of those I could only see once I was in a couple serious relationships. And also in middle age.
For example, I dislike my job to put it lightly, and it is a difficult job, and I'm not sure what to do about it. That is a BIG strain on a relationship.
That wasn't apparent when I was younger. Dating and attraction is almost a different thing from being in a relationship.
As an extreme to what you suggest, I could say ... if I could go back to age 25 now knowing what I know now, I'd be a mack daddy. Because I have quadruple the confidence and know how many stupid things I said. But that's very theoretical (of course CD Forum conversations are all 'theoretical). I would find a lot of the stupid things we did back then ... stupid, and then you're not a very fun person.
It would definitely help a little though.
Last edited by jobaba; 10-06-2022 at 04:45 PM..
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