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The reason I ask too is because my most recent date was laying it down she was looking for a husband to take care of her cuz she sees the man as the primary provider and the lady to stay home and care for the house and kids if any. But I was just flat out honest I can’t provide that lifestyle with the cost of living crushing me down. I recently move back home with my family too because rent is nuts in California and better I stay close with my family
I find it uncouth that women are actually vocalizing this on dates with guys they barely know. Really, some things are just better left unsaid...
I've been in a couple relationships where I was being provided for by the man , but I didn't go into it looking for, expecting, or demanding it. I didn't even have to ask.
I think alot of young women today feel entitled to certain privileges they don't understand have to be earned .. If you want to be a man's helpmeet in life, be humble. You gotta show and prove, and cut the angry feminist bs cuz you can't have it both ways. You gotta walk that walk and actually BE the type of woman that men want to provide for in order to actually get it.
I’m 65. From my lens where life decisions can make a difference between a comfortable retirement and living in a cardboard box eating dog kibble, any strategy that involves removing yourself from the workforce without logging 35 strong earnings years is likely to be disastrous. Social Security uses your 35 highest income years to calculate your benefit. It also uses your earnings history that calculate disability compensation. Having a bunch of those years be zero can easily land you in poverty once you can’t work. You’re not going to accrue as much wealth because you can’t afford the more expensive home that is paid for when you’re in your 60s. You don’t have two people contributing to 401(k) accounts. You’re more likely to be living paycheck to paycheck saving and investing nothing. Your spouse could die. Your spouse could have a midlife crisis and divorce you before you hit 10 years of Social Security so you’re not eligible for any of their benefit. Your spouse could get sick or have mental illness or have a drug/alcohol/gambling problem.
I find it uncouth that women are actually vocalizing this on dates with guys they barely know. Really, some things are just better left unsaid...
I've been in a couple of relationships where I was being provided for by the man, but I didn't go into it looking for, expecting, or demanding it. I didn't even have to ask.
One would question why you were leaving things "unsaid". To land more dates? To get the guy to emotionally attach only to have him provide for you?
You may call it uncouth. Many call it being honest. As a man who is most likely paying all the expenses for dating, I would rather know upfront. When I date, I am honest saying what my expectations are in a relationship. If she is not up front, then I would just assume she is being dishonest, digging for money, and has communication problems. All red flags for a lot of men.
I posted in this thread of a woman I was dating took money from me under false pretenses. Behavior you would find acceptable for a woman? A man does that to another man, he is held accountable. A woman should also be held accountable. That means being honest about expectations in dating.
Most men have ZERO chance of entering into a relationship with a woman who is seeking to provide for her husband; ZERO chance. So it is easy as a woman to say being upfront about this is "uncouth". You aren't held accountable. In dating, a man already has skin in the game; it costs money to date. The least a woman can do is be herself and honest.
If she is driven and career-oriented, a potential husband should know. If she wishes to be a stay at home wife, a potential husband should know. If he wants a stay-at-home wife, she should know. If he wants a wife who is financially independent, she should also know.
This honest behavior you call uncouth is a good thing for both men and women.
Quote:
Originally Posted by D217
I think alot of young women today feel entitled to certain privileges they don't understand have to be earned .. If you want to be a man's helpmeet in life, be humble. You gotta show and prove, and cut the angry feminist bs cuz you can't have it both ways. You gotta walk that walk and actually BE the type of woman that men want to provide for in order to actually get it.
Says a woman who was being provided for and says being honest is "uncouth".
Those family that you described end in divorce because 2 working parents will never work out for majority of the households. How am I wrong when divorce rates are 50%? What's your evidence that your idea is better?
I think women who pursue their career first are wasting their money and time. Eventually the woman who has a career also has to be a mother and take time off to care for their kids while the man who just works maybe take some time out to go have extra-marital relations. This is all because of the work 1st family 2nd mentality of Western society.
It is because the attitude that it is a woman's obligation to do the housework, parenting and work outside the home as attested by your post. When men/fathers step up and contribute equally to the domestic and parenting divorces will decrease.
Which will keep them from becoming mothers while they use their productive years to make a few bucks. What a deal for the employer!
Later on when the women become late 30s and early 40s then want to marry and become mothers it will be a very difficult and expensive proposition.
Men and women have different value system, women need to value themselves that while they still in the reproductive years they need to quickly decide to conceive and have a plan.
It is much better for a woman to conceive children then attend school and pursue a career after they've produced children with a supportive partner.
Trying to climb the corporate ladder before having children is a big mistake in the western world. Before people disagree with me, the stats are not favorable for women who chose career over family,
Maybe women dont want to become mothers in their 20's. Working/career is not just about making a few bucks. It is financial independence and future financial security. Not to mention for many work is meaningful and fulfilling.
Many people are marrying later in life now and becoming parents later in life. It is not necessarily difficult and expensive to have children in your 30's and 40's.
Who are you to tell people what their values should be. You know nothing about what is much better for anyone but yourself.
What stats would you be referring to? Choosing career over family means not having children. Are you saying being childfree is not favorable for women? Ha.
I find it uncouth that women are actually vocalizing this on dates with guys they barely know. Really, some things are just better left unsaid...
I've been in a couple relationships where I was being provided for by the man , but I didn't go into it looking for, expecting, or demanding it. I didn't even have to ask.
I think alot of young women today feel entitled to certain privileges they don't understand have to be earned .. If you want to be a man's helpmeet in life, be humble. You gotta show and prove, and cut the angry feminist bs cuz you can't have it both ways. You gotta walk that walk and actually BE the type of woman that men want to provide for in order to actually get it.
Dont you think honesty and openness is the basis of good relationship? With online dating as it is these days I would think one would be wasting eachother's time by not being open and honest about wants and expectations at the git go. It is not your grandma's dating scene anymore.
My assumption is that men either want to be the sole provider and support a spouse or they do not (it dosent always work out how they want). It really doesn't matter what kind of woman you are. The factors I see basically in which married women don't work outside the home are caring for children, the man is wealthy, or a man feels emasculated by an earning wife.
Maybe women dont want to become mothers in their 20's. Working/career is not just about making a few bucks. It is financial independence and future financial security. Not to mention for many work is meaningful and fulfilling.
That’s more or less the point I was trying to make a few posts back. It’s life suicide to not get to some level of financial independence. The memo I got was finish your education, launch your career, then meet someone similar, then start thinking about children. My sister and I both got that lecture continuously. My mother was a university professor. My sister has a PhD from the Duke Medical School and was on her career track before getting married. You need 21st century job skills and some career history to get to that point of being able to earn your own living.
We live in a dual income universe. You have to be really wealthy before it isn’t absurd to consider having a nonworking spouse. As a nonworking spouse, there are a bunch of scenarios where you have doomed yourself to poverty.
One would question why you were leaving things "unsaid". To land more dates? To get the guy to emotionally attach only to have him provide for you?
You may call it uncouth. Many call it being honest. As a man who is most likely paying all the expenses for dating, I would rather know upfront. When I date, I am honest saying what my expectations are in a relationship. If she is not up front, then I would just assume she is being dishonest, digging for money, and has communication problems. All red flags for a lot of men.
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It's not the honesty, it's the entitlement that I find uncouth. Which is what I elaborated on in the rest of my original post..
I don't use dating apps or meet men online, and for the record, I did not go into either of those relationships broke or unemployed, nor expecting to be taken care of. They were just periods of change within long term relationships where he was the sole bread winner, and it was a very humbling experience for me. Some men/women are *actively* pursing that - I was not, but having experienced what it is like to stay home and take care of your man/house, it's not as easy or glamorous as it sounds..
I think many young women have unrealistic expectations when it comes to men these days (and vice versa) and what they are trying to get out of a relationship. The giving and taking must be reciprocal, in whatever way that works and makes both people happy.
Those family that you described end in divorce because 2 working parents will never work out for majority of the households. How am I wrong when divorce rates are 50%? What's your evidence that your idea is better?
I think women who pursue their career first are wasting their money and time. Eventually the woman who has a career also has to be a mother and take time off to care for their kids while the man who just works maybe take some time out to go have extra-marital relations. This is all because of the work 1st family 2nd mentality of Western society.
You are both correct in identifying the problem. However you are the one with a solution.
I am a perfect specimen for this analysis because I am an example of both outcomes. I started my life in a serious 3 year relationship, 18-21 with a girl that went to my high school with the relationship just starting out of high school. May as well have been called my first informal marriage.
There are two problems with this. The coeducational system has given the idea that boys and girls are peers. Historically we are not. All the things women want are associated with experience. Men want youth(for exclusive relationships especially. Its an algorithm that cannot be resisted) and beauty .
Women that enter into those high school sweet heart relationships marry untested men that can become proven failures. Worse still, when men enter into relationships and especially with children their testosterone drops to keep daddy alive. I know this very well because after I finally freed myself from this badly working relationship my motivation, ambition and risk taking returned. I should have been bootstrapping between 18-21 , I just got my 20 something when I was 30 something. Don't have to have huge age gaps but really at least give him a 3 year head start. He needs it.
Anyway I see many examples of women that raised their families in their 20s and then had their next phase in a career. In fact I am looking right at it with my own wife. They may not make CEO, but male vs female"? There is no chance. Workaholic, sociopaths have 5 minutes to spare and that is enough for a man to reproduce. Its not enough for a woman. If that is what a woman wants it will come at the expense of her love life. That's fine, but at least we can stop lying about it.
That’s more or less the point I was trying to make a few posts back. It’s life suicide to not get to some level of financial independence. The memo I got was finish your education, launch your career, then meet someone similar, then start thinking about children. My sister and I both got that lecture continuously. My mother was a university professor. My sister has a PhD from the Duke Medical School and was on her career track before getting married. You need 21st century job skills and some career history to get to that point of being able to earn your own living.
We live in a dual income universe. You have to be really wealthy before it isn’t absurd to consider having a nonworking spouse. As a nonworking spouse, there are a bunch of scenarios where you have doomed yourself to poverty.
I totally agree with you. My childhood was just opposite of yours, no guidance and a SAHM, but I got the same message watching her "entitlement". About age 5 I decided that's not for me. And that was in the 60's. Both my sisters had kids, then entered the workforce after their kids were in school, one after her husband left her. Both had low paying jobs and depended on a man for financial support. They would not have survived financially without it. I had kids and was separated then widowed before the divorce but my work experience and degree allowed me to support my family then myself after the kids were grown and I have my own retirement and social security based on those years of working.
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