Divorce makes men - and particularly fathers - significantly richer. (honest, respect)

[JerZ]

Originally Posted by Dewdrop93

My husband and I value each other above and beyond what I could possibly express. We tell each other everyday how much we appreciate the other person.

I, too, value my husband working plus commuting. I value him hugely. And I tell him, nearly every day. How do I know exactly how hard it is to work outside the home? Because before I was at home, I worked F/T outside the home for 18 years and for 10 of those, supported myself and my eldest son 100% financially as well.

So like you, Dewdrop, yes, I absolutely do think my husband works hard...and I tell him so.

[onihC]

Originally Posted by JerZ

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong and wrong...good God man. Are you taking out your memories of some woman you resent, on me?

Telling you that washing dishes is not that big of a deal means I resent a woman? Oh ok. I have done my house chores since I was a kid and now at my place and I have nobody to resent. Typical of you women who try to throw a jab here and there when a guy doesn't agree with you.

I was specific and DIDN'T exaggerate. I don't just pour water on a dish and swipe at chunks. I use actual soap and an actual sponge and I actually wash the thing, and then I dry it and then I put it away.

When you put the dishes in the dishwasher you don’t need to wash them and then put them in. As long as they don’t have chunks stuck to it or big amounts of food residue you can go ahead and put them in and let the machine do the job for you while you go back to watching celebrity gossip on tv or doing another house chore.

If we’re talking about washing them by hand, then yeah, instead of putting it in a dishwasher then you wash them with soap and water like I have said before already and it still won’t take you more than 5 minutes for a dish, bowl, and glass. Add 3 minutes to wash the counter. I would understand if you have a big one like those in restaurants but, come on, a typical American house?

Then the counter gets a quick swipe (do you not do this either? I'm more and more grateful by the minute that I've never been invited to your house, as I do not own a HazMat suit)

I had parents who were not afraid and intimidated to tell each other and me and my siblings to do house chores so its nothing new for me to live in a clean house. Heck, I don’t even leave my house leaving dirty dishes on the counter, pots/pans, an undone bed, etc.

I don't care whether "most" households in the US have a dishwasher. *I don't* so again...wrong. I do all my dishes by hand and I know other women (or men) who do their own dishes by hand

And it still doesn’t take all that time you talk about for a simple dish, bowl, and glass. Sure, for a meal you use more than that, maybe a pot and/or pan, and so on. But I can assure you to just wash a simple dish, bowl, and glass, shouldn’t take more than 5 minutes like you say. Women seem to exaggerate about house chores like that. Did you read WhyShouldIWorry post?

Is house chores a job that should be valued? Of course, regardless of who does it or if it takes a lot or not. I just find it interesting how a man’s job is not valued or rewarded in a divorce.

You repeated the "hernia" comment so let me repeat, I never said washing one dish and one cup shoddily, in the dishwasher, gave anyone a hernia.

But you said it took more than 5 minutes, come on, more than 5 minutes for a simple dish, bowl, and glass?

Only one has answered but I will ask again, why do women in here sound so strong and vocal but once the husband arrives you can’t even say these things to him and the children?

[Braunwyn]

Originally Posted by hindsight2020

But hold a relationship hostage over honey-dos by making a jacked up reference as to how that is indicative of a macroscopic tendency for the non-domestic spouse to be a non-supportive partner and then seek to harm him/her financially in divorce by telling some dope judge you really busted your hump cleaning the laundry room and that entitles you to 20 grand a year from the guy/gal? Lunacy.

Please, get over yourself and the failures that comprise your own relationships. Very few in this thread are promoting alimony. The OT argument is noting that running a home is hard work. If you're not working hard in your home, you're probably a tad filthy of a person. Lets not confuse that with other people's marriages.

[JerZ]

To PM please, OnihC, and I will answer any of your questions and correct your inaccuracies. I can say nothing more on the matter on this thread so if I don't answer you, I'm not being rude.

[onihC]

Originally Posted by JerZ

To PM please, OnihC, and I will answer any of your questions and correct your inaccuracies. I can say nothing more on the matter on this thread so if I don't answer you, I'm not being rude.

I will correct your inaccuracies as well. See you at PM land. If you can talk about it without throwing jabs or insults, then, be my guest .

[Dewdroplet76]

Originally Posted by onihC

Only one has answered but I will ask again, why do women in here sound so strong and vocal but once the husband arrives you can’t even say these things to him and the children?

Because they aren't the ones complaining about it - you are! My husband appreciates what I do - he knows how hard I have worked in many different ways - cleaning the house, doing his laundry, taking care of the cooking and cleaning the kitchen, reminding him when his parents bdays are, taking care of our dog, paying our bills, finding our house, appying for the mortgage, etc. He is not the one belittling my life. He gets it. He understands how a marriage works. He tells me everyday how he appreciates all I do.

Like I said - every marriage is different. Heck, every person is different. Even on this thread - some people take 20 minutes to cook a meal, some people take a few hours. It doesn't really mean anything. There is no right or wrong - just different. But cooking and cleaning for one person is VASTLY different than cooking and cleaning for 2 or more. When I lived by myself - I only had to do the laundry once every other week or so. Now I have to do it at least a couple times a week and once we have the baby - I might have to do it everyday. When I lived by myself, cooking was much simpler and easier. It was also much less gratifying. Being married and having a family is nothing like being single. I'm not saying one is easier than the other - there are so many benefits to being married (and no, I don't mean financially).

Bringing this back to the OP - since every person is different and every marriage is different - it only makes sense that every divorce is different, too. To say that men always get screwed is a fallacy. To say that women always end up better off is a fallacy. And I'm only even referencing money. Money is only one aspect of divorce - to say that it's the only thing involved is moronic.

[JerZ]

Originally Posted by Dewdrop93

To say that men always get screwed is a fallacy. To say that women always end up better of is a fallacy. And I'm only even referencing money. Money is only one aspect of divorce - to say that it's the only thing involved is moronic.

^^ This...plain and simple. (applauding)

[boodhabunny]

Originally Posted by onihC

Only one has answered but I will ask again, why do women in here sound so strong and vocal but once the husband arrives you can’t even say these things to him and the children?

Nagging is exhausting and ineffective.

Don't you ever wonder why do so many men refuse to do their share if it only takes a few second to rinse their bowl, plate,and glass? Why do they allow their marriages to dissolve over the issue when it could be resolved so simply?

My husband and I both work full time. Yet I do almost all of the housework. I've just decided to do it and not complain rather than make an issue out of it. It's not the hill I want to die on.

We have no pets or children at home but I still estimate that I spend a minimum of two hours per day on domestic chores, sometimes more. That includes shopping, running errands, and yard work.

I can provide a detailed itemized list of my daily domestic to-do list if you like.

[JerZ]

Originally Posted by boodhabunny

N

My husband and I both work full time. Yet I do almost all of the housework. I've just decided to do it and not complain rather than make an issue out of it. It's not the hill I want to die on.

This is what I see a fair amount of the time (maybe 75%?) among married working couples I know. The 25% tend to include the real "catches"... Young guys who aren't chauvanistic. (Le sigh)

This was my situation too when my DH and I were both working full time and I was making more money at the time than he was, actually.

As you said, nagging accomplishes nothing...if something breaks up a marriage it shouldn't be this. So you just keep doing it...I know soooo many wives who feel this way too. Good post and good explanation.

[onihC]

Originally Posted by Dewdrop93

Because they aren't the ones complaining about it - you are!

Far from complaining. I am just saying how society values and rewards a woman’s job in the house but not a man’s job. See, I’ll say it again, it’s nice for anybody to contribute with house chores but to say that it is such a difficult task is going a bit over board. That’s all. Women make it seem like I am making a big scene when it is the women who are throwing insults and jabs at me for voicing my opinion. Relax a little.

Originally Posted by boodhabunny

Nagging is exhausting and ineffective

It is and if women are so afraid to tell their children and husband to chip in then they married the wrong guy. You know how men are told around here when they complain that their girl doesn’t contribute to expenses or just sits at home without even doing house chores. They are told to stop complaining, be a man, leave the relationship, etc. Or they are told they are with the wrong person and not everybody is the same. Well, that goes for the woman as well who say they can’t talk to their husband and children about house chores. What can be done?

Don't you ever wonder why do so many men refuse to do their share if it only takes a few second to rinse their bowl, plate,and glass? Why do they allow their marriages to dissolve over the issue when it could be resolved so simply?

I am totally with you on this one. It doesn’t take much to do house chores and this goes for both men and women. It will even take less if BOTH work on them as a loving couple, as a team. Well, using your same logic, ever wonder why women refuse to pay for a date when they are totally capable of doing so? But no, women won’t unless they have gone through the initial stages, a couple of months, they make sure the guy is serious, they become an official couple, etc. So the logic to your question applies to both men/women when it comes to anything in the relationship. I see it as something bad for men to NOT do house chores and leave it all to their wife as bad as I see women who don’t contribute to dating expenses, initiative, romancing their guy, etc.

My husband and I both work full time. Yet I do almost all of the housework

In a past thread you said he is the one who does it for you because he’s skilled in the kitchen and other house chores.

I've just decided to do it and not complain rather than make an issue out of it. It's not the hill I want to die on

You have shared how he showers you with gifts, fancy dinners, expensive flowers, a sporty car for your birthday, etc. I guess it is your way to reciprocate and show you are thankful. Cool.

I can provide a detailed itemized list of my daily domestic to-do list if you like.

We can do that on PM if you want. That is, if you can talk about it without throwing insults and jabs as other women have done. I'll give you respect and expect it as well . Having opposing views doesn't make you or me a monster.