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Location: Everybody is going to hurt you, you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for-B Marley
9,516 posts, read 20,005,830 times
Reputation: 9418
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ameribull
Your kids can survive a divorce. Just try to make it as civil and drama free as possible. Lifes to short to be miserable and those boys know you are both miserable.
^This. Kids are tough and resilient, they're not going to be damaged for life. Of course it's going to hurt everyone, even the ones who want it, but when the positive effects of it begin to take shape--in how happy you both become--it will rub off on the kids as well. Kids are much tougher than you might think.
I'm sorry you are having such a rough time, Lucario. I agree that you should consult with a lawyer and get an idea about your options. All these stories about other people have nothing to do with you and your situation ... find out what YOUR reality is.
I hate you are going through such a difficult time in your life. Living under the same roof with someone you have grown to despise is miserable and can zap every ounce of life out of you. After reading your posts it's seems a divorce in inevitable at some point in your future. However, may I suggest you take time to work on you first....mentally, physically and financially. Your wife may have grown resentful of you because she feels your roles have become reversed. I would suspect your wife was very proud of you when you were taking care of business, had a good job, physically fit, man of the house, etc. and then you lost it all. Worst of all, you've given up on yourself. Start by losing the weight and getting a better frame of mind. If not for yourself, for your children. They will need you to be there for them when the chips do fall so get to work on stabilizing your health. If you are doing free-lance work, PT work and things are going ok then continue but don't stop looking for a better job. Many people are having to work for salaries that are YEARS behind where they were when the economy tanked. Don't be unrealistic in your search and know you may have to start at the bottom, middle or somewhere in between and work your way up again.
While I know your teeth probably ache everytime you look at your spouse, try to grin and bear it for the meantime. You are not financially ready to make such a drastic move and you have to get your "house" in order before doing so.
Working out is a great stress reliever and once you start dropping the weight, I guarantee you will feel better. It affects everything....your mood, confidence and you may even smile a bit more!
FrmlyBklyn: While I understand your desire to share your story, realize that every situation is different. In the immortal words of Leo Tolstoy,
"All happy families are alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way."
You last two posts led me to believe you did not even read through the thread. In Lucario's marriage, the wife is the one who makes the big bucks, and he is the one who does most of the work taking care of the children -- so in all likelihood, he is the one who will get custody, child support, and likely alimony as well. In any event, saying, "My cousin experienced X, therefore it'll happen to you too" just makes no sense whatsoever.
Don't take it the wrong way -- but I really don't understand it why some people seem to experience a relish in telling a person like the OP, in graphic detail, all the horrific things that are supposedly going to happen to him and his children. Forget the fact that such conjectures have no basis in reality; why would one make a difficult situation even more difficult through anxiety and fear?
As for lawyers making money off of a divorce -- well, yeah, divorce is expensive. It becomes especially expensive when the parties act irrationally and vindictively; and they are particularly likely to act that way when people around them egg them on and feed their anxiety with fear-mongering. So if you really are worried about the OP being able to afford a divorce -- and not just concern-trolling -- mind what you say. Incidentally, if you ever get seriously ill, as all of us will at some point, the only ones who will make out like bandits are doctors.
Redisca, while I'm sure that you have more to offer the OP in terms of your legal expertise than anyone else on these boards, it's a sad fact that divorce more times than not brings out the very worst in people. However, it is not just the parties involved, but the process and the legal advice a lawyer representing you recommends that starts all the ugliness.
When I myself thought to go down this path, my lawyer (who's retainer btw was $7500) recommended that before I file/serve my dh, I should freeze all of our monies, hide the children's passports, safeguard all valuables. Their concern was to represent me and get for me as much as possible.
Incidently, even though I dropped the whole thing within a short span (2 weeks) of time, there was only $4000 left on the retainer to refund me.
Redisca, while I'm sure that you have more to offer the OP in terms of your legal expertise than anyone else on these boards, it's a sad fact that divorce more times than not brings out the very worst in people. However, it is not just the parties involved, but the process and the legal advice a lawyer representing you recommends that starts all the ugliness.
When I myself thought to go down this path, my lawyer (who's retainer btw was $7500) recommended that before I file/serve my dh, I should freeze all of our monies, hide the children's passports, safeguard all valuables. Their concern was to represent me and get for me as much as possible.
Incidently, even though I dropped the whole thing within a short span (2 weeks) of time, there was only $4000 left on the retainer to refund me.
Yeah, I hear things like this a lot. And I know plenty of women that have lifestyles that have taken a nosedive, financially speaking, after their divorce. When my ex and I split, we didn't even divorce right away - I simply moved out (actually he had lived "out" - in my townhouse that I still owned - for the requisite 1 year). When I found a house to buy, he returned and stayed in his house. I paid all the expenses of the divorce (we didn't actually divorce until 5 years later); he did not even have a lawyer. I think my total expenses were around $1,000. It doesn't have to be a nightmare, but it sure can be. We were lucky I guess.
Redisca, while I'm sure that you have more to offer the OP in terms of your legal expertise than anyone else on these boards, it's a sad fact that divorce more times than not brings out the very worst in people. However, it is not just the parties involved, but the process and the legal advice a lawyer representing you recommends that starts all the ugliness.
Robee, I don't do divorce law, but I've worked on the periphery of some divorce cases, and I know that good lawyers can minimize this effect in a divorce. Unfortunately, it is a field that draws a good number of dysfunctional people who want to use their clients as proxies to fight their own personal wars. At the beginning of my career, I shared an office with a young divorce attorney whose sole reason for getting into the divorce field was that he absolutely HATED women. Needless to say, he spent his (male) clients' money like water and made their divorces unnecessarily protracted and acrimonious. But I've also known very good divorce attorneys who do their best to maintain a practical approach to the whole thing. Actually, decent attorneys tend to drag their heels a little for the first few weeks, to let their clients "cool off" as it were, and they go out of their way to avoid acrimony. That's one of the reasons why that first consultation with a lawyer is so important: because it gives one an idea of the lawyer's style and philosophy. But that's details, I'm sure the OP understands that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by robee70
When I myself thought to go down this path, my lawyer (who's retainer btw was $7500) recommended that before I file/serve my dh, I should freeze all of our monies, hide the children's passports, safeguard all valuables. Their concern was to represent me and get for me as much as much as possible.
Depending on the circumstances, it is a reasonable recommendation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by robee70
Incidently, even though I dropped the whole thing within a short span (2 weeks) of time, there was only $4000 left on the retainer to refund me.
If you believe that you were overcharged, you are entitled to review the file and see what work the lawyers did for you. If it doesn't match the bill, you should contact your local Ethics Committee. However, lawyers, like most other professionals, get paid as the work is done, and the payment is usually not contingent on you not changing your mind (except in personal injury cases). Doing $3500 worth of work in 2 weeks doesn't sound unreasonable to me. Although my field generally pays less than divorce law, I have to say it's not unusual for me, when I get a new, complicated case requiring immediate motion practice, to spend as much as 50 hours a week on it. That's 50 hours of actual work. Of which about 65% is "billable". With a modest rate of $100 per hour, if you do the math, that comes out just a little shy of $3500.
Location: Everybody is going to hurt you, you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for-B Marley
9,516 posts, read 20,005,830 times
Reputation: 9418
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChessieMom
Yeah, I hear things like this a lot. And I know plenty of women that have lifestyles that have taken a nosedive, financially speaking, after their divorce. When my ex and I split, we didn't even divorce right away - I simply moved out (actually he had lived "out" - in my townhouse that I still owned - for the requisite 1 year). When I found a house to buy, he returned and stayed in his house. I paid all the expenses of the divorce (we didn't actually divorce until 5 years later); he did not even have a lawyer. I think my total expenses were around $1,000. It doesn't have to be a nightmare, but it sure can be. We were lucky I guess.
Same here. I didn't want anything, just out. I even opted out of going to court for child support (2 kids), trusting him to do the right thing. He didn't and I never got help financially to raise them but it was worth it for our own happiness, his and the kids' as well as mine.
Robee, I don't do divorce law, but I've worked on the periphery of some divorce cases, and I know that good lawyers can minimize this effect in a divorce. Unfortunately, it is a field that draws a good number of dysfunctional people who want to use their clients as proxies to fight their own personal wars. At the beginning of my career, I shared an office with a young divorce attorney whose sole reason for getting into the divorce field was that he absolutely HATED women. Needless to say, he spent his (male) clients' money like water and made their divorces unnecessarily protracted and acrimonious. But I've also known very good divorce attorneys who do their best to maintain a practical approach to the whole thing. Actually, decent attorneys tend to drag their heels a little for the first few weeks, to let their clients "cool off" as it were, and they go out of their way to avoid acrimony. That's one of the reasons why that first consultation with a lawyer is so important: because it gives one an idea of the lawyer's style and philosophy. But that's details, I'm sure the OP understands that.
Depending on the circumstances, it is a reasonable recommendation.
If you believe that you were overcharged, you are entitled to review the file and see what work the lawyers did for you. If it doesn't match the bill, you should contact your local Ethics Committee. However, lawyers, like most other professionals, get paid as the work is done, and the payment is usually not contingent on you not changing your mind (except in personal injury cases). Doing $3500 worth of work in 2 weeks doesn't sound unreasonable to me. Although my field generally pays less than divorce law, I have to say it's not unusual for me, when I get a new, complicated case requiring immediate motion practice, to spend as much as 50 hours a week on it. That's 50 hours of actual work. Of which about 65% is "billable". With a modest rate of $100 per hour, if you do the math, that comes out just a little shy of $3500.
Of course ultimately a divorce will only be as ugly as both parties allow it to be. The OP may not be vindictive but we don't know how his wife will be. Hopefully they will be able to discuss it and make it as amicable as possible.
To my attorney's dismay, I didn't follow her advice probably because subconsicously I felt the actions she recommended I take were more hurtful than my asking for the divorce itself. Although I know that it could have worked against me, I asked my husband for a divorce without any financial maneuverings. I think that enabled the conversation that took place as a result to be honest and not defensive and strategic.
I also know that I wasn't overcharged, I was just highlighting how expensive it can potentially be. I personally opted for one of the partners of the firm and not an associate because my situation involved a shared business, other shared assets, special needs kids and us all having dual-citizenship, so it was perhaps more complex than some. IIRC, we only got to about 20 billable hours.
I agree that the OP probably knows all this and certainly I'm not trying to "scare him" out of doing what he feels he needs to do. I don't believe marriage should be a life sentence that someone needs to suffer through.
I'm just saying he should prepare, consult, try guaging his wife's reaction to the suggestion and also take the time to look within himself. Divorce is always an option, but IMO it should be the last one after all other options have failed.
[quote=Redisca;14126864]FrmlyBklyn: While I understand your desire to share your story, realize that every situation is different. In the immortal words of Leo Tolstoy,
"All happy families are alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way."
You last two posts led me to believe you did not even read through the thread. In Lucario's marriage, the wife is the one who makes the big bucks, and he is the one who does most of the work taking care of the children -- so in all likelihood, he is the one who will get custody, child support, and likely alimony as well. In any event, saying, "My cousin experienced X, therefore it'll happen to you too" just makes no sense whatsoever.
Redisca- Correct, I did not read through the whole thread, my response was based upon the comment that men tend to be disadvantaged in court. However, in no shape or form did I imply nor mean to imply that will be the outcome for the OP.
Incidentally, if you ever get seriously ill, as all of us will at some point, the only ones who will make out like bandits are doctors.[/quote]
In health, you could always take the 10 cent solution. In divorce there is no alternative - you need an attorney. Also, please justify charging $100 for a 10 minute phone call - what malpractice insurance? Comparing healthcare to attorneys is comparing apples to oranges.
As for lawyers making money off of a divorce -- well, yeah, divorce is expensive. It becomes especially expensive when the parties act irrationally and vindictively; and they are particularly likely to act that way when people around them egg them on and feed their anxiety with fear-mongering. So if you really are worried about the OP being able to afford a divorce -- and not just concern-trolling -- mind what you say.
This seems to have hit a nerve. You are certainly entitled to your feelings as am I. However, let's talk fact, nowhere did I "troll" in my post - if you refer to the very first page of the thread there was a response from another poster that simply stated an opinion that men tend to get the short end of the stick in divorce proceedings. My response was to that - and to back it up I gave the example of a relative. Now, on the point of lawyers charging for their services - that was a statement of fact. They are outrageously high and relative to the level of service provided can not be compared to a doctor with 7 years of schooling, 4 years of residency and umpteen years of experience with million dollar malpractice insurance bills driven higher by ambulance chasers. To do otherwise, is ludicrous!
First we don't know if that's what he is looking to get (custody). Although I think it's possible that he could get custody under the circumstances, it's very important that he consult with a lawyer before he makes any sudden waves. If that is what you want Lucario, then DO NOT leave the house and your children behind, no matter how unbearable it may be
Also keep in mind that if his wife is a primary breadwinner, then she also may have the means of using the expense of the divorce process to drag it out. This was the case for a close friend of ours and he ultimately did not have the means to keep the battle going to get what probably deserved.
From prior posts he has made I believe losing custody or daily contact with is kids is one of his biggest concerns.
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After reading your posts it's seems a divorce in inevitable at some point in your future. However, may I suggest you take time to work on you first....mentally, physically and financially. Your wife may have grown resentful of you because she feels your roles have become reversed. I would suspect your wife was very proud of you when you were taking care of business, had a good job, physically fit, man of the house, etc. and then you lost it all. Worst of all, you've given up on yourself. Start by losing the weight and getting a better frame of mind. If not for yourself, for your children. They will need you to be there for them when the chips do fall so get to work on stabilizing your health. If you are doing free-lance work, PT work and things are going ok then continue but don't stop looking for a better job. Many people are having to work for salaries that are YEARS behind where they were when the economy tanked. Don't be unrealistic in your search and know you may have to start at the bottom, middle or somewhere in between and work your way up again. 
I think my total expenses were around $1,000. It doesn't have to be a nightmare, but it sure can be. We were lucky I guess.
