Is Abortion Acceptable For Rape Or Incest? (church, gospel, verses)
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I have a question for kaykay or alpha or whoever wants to answer. I know this has been discussed to death but is there ever a time when abortion would be ok? I mean what about like the day after you found out you were pregnant? I know only God knows when "the quickening" occurs but when do you think? This is a sincere question and not meant to stir anything up.
From my point of view, no, there is never a time abortion is OK. I am even against contraceptives that work by not allowing a fertilized egg to be implanted. My point of view is that when sperm unites with the egg, you have life. I am not OK with interfering with it from that point on.
I have a question for kaykay or alpha or whoever wants to answer. I know this has been discussed to death but is there ever a time when abortion would be ok? I mean what about like the day after you found out you were pregnant? I know only God knows when "the quickening" occurs but when do you think? This is a sincere question and not meant to stir anything up.
IMHO there are two times when I think it's definitely ok to terminate. The first is the morning after pill. Pregnancy doesn't begin until implantation does so to me that's fine (as are IUD's). I mean you can have multiple eggs and sperm fetilized outside the womb (as in a lab) and those embryos have no chance of becoming a baby unless implanted into a uterus, so that is not life. You can (and most women do) have multiple eggs fertilized in their bodies that don't happen to implant for one reason or another and menstruation still occurs with no pregnancy...so again this is not a life created because there is no chance for development into a baby.
The second is at any point during a pregnancy if the mother's life is in jeopardy. Now for the original question that was posed, again I think it's up to what each individual can handle and it is their choice.
We're just going around in circles I feel. I don't believe in your god ( or anybody else's for that matter) so I cannot look at this issue the same way a Christian would. As an atheist I look at it from a secular point of view . I just find it really puzzling that the Christian's point of view to explain anything difficult is "god moves in mysterious ways" and that we are somehow to accept anything from natural disasters to genetic disorders, famine, and miscarriages as an explanation for all these. If there was a god I really can't see him as a god of love but a god of wrath ( usually towards the innocents and the most vulnerable too). I have yet to see any of his love to his children. If this is blasphemous I do apologise but that is how I feel. I spent years trying to understand religions, trying to let in this god everybody spoke of , praying, and I have yet to see any sign of it or feel his presence at all. If religious people want to dispute my sincerity or put it down to "god , working in strange and exclusive ways" so be it. It just seems such a fantastic" get out of jail " card to me to say that we don't understand god but he knows best. I like to understand things and find it quite arrogant of god to exclude me and the rest of the world from his great plan.
If we are his children , he has not raised us very well. I would never presume to expect my children to listen to me without actually explaining to them why they were right/wrong/ or why things happened. I might not know all this answers( though god is supposed to) but at least I would not assume that anyone should follow me just because. That seems so presumptuous.
I think some issues are not even discussable between religious people and atheists as we don't have any common points of reference.
Mooseketeer,
I don't know how to respond to this really. I do believe that the answers to many of our questions about God are found in the Bible, especially the New Testament. I think much of the atrocity in the world happens because in Christian theology, we do believe we are living in "a fallen world." St. Paul speaks in the book of Roman of all creation groaning for redemption. And yes, God does ask us to accept a lot of things by faith.
I sound like a broken record recommending this book but my favorite apologetic book is by Dr. Greg Boyd. I think he does an excellent, sensitive job addressing some of the issues you raise, Mooseketeer. The name of the book is entitled, Letters from a Skeptic. (Can be purchased from amazon.com or "pm" and I'll send you a copy if you like.)
IMHO there are two times when I think it's definitely ok to terminate. The first is the morning after pill. Pregnancy doesn't begin until implantation does so to me that's fine (as are IUD's). I mean you can have multiple eggs and sperm fetilized outside the womb (as in a lab) and those embryos have no chance of becoming a baby unless implanted into a uterus, so that is not life. You can (and most women do) have multiple eggs fertilized in their bodies that don't happen to implant for one reason or another and menstruation still occurs with no pregnancy...so again this is not a life created because there is no chance for development into a baby.
The second is at any point during a pregnancy if the mother's life is in jeopardy. Now for the original question that was posed, again I think it's up to what each individual can handle and it is their choice.
IMHO there are two times when I think it's definitely ok to terminate. The first is the morning after pill. Pregnancy doesn't begin until implantation does so to me that's fine (as are IUD's). I mean you can have multiple eggs and sperm fetilized outside the womb (as in a lab) and those embryos have no chance of becoming a baby unless implanted into a uterus, so that is not life. You can (and most women do) have multiple eggs fertilized in their bodies that don't happen to implant for one reason or another and menstruation still occurs with no pregnancy...so again this is not a life created because there is no chance for development into a baby.
The second is at any point during a pregnancy if the mother's life is in jeopardy. Now for the original question that was posed, again I think it's up to what each individual can handle and it is their choice.
I totally agree with Irish here (of course). These are the only times for myself and my wife that we (regrettably) agree with an abortion personally. We both feel strongly that abortion should not be used as a form of birth control, as we have both personally known people to do repeatedly.
However, we both also feel that, especially in the 1st trimester, that it should be that individuals choice. If we had our druthers, no one would ever want or feel the need to get an abortion in this circumstance, and we would never choose it for ourselves. But to take it away across the board, when so many women end up in what they feel are hopeless situations...we feel this would end up as a national health crisis that would create more harm than good. IMHO, of course.
God is far far far far superior to any mortal and he knows all and sees all. If He wants to take a life for a reason unbeknowst to anyone on earth that is His right. He is certainly not an abortionist and I think its blesphemous for you to even say that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaykay
. I am even against contraceptives that work by not allowing a fertilized egg to be implanted. My point of view is that when sperm unites with the egg, you have life. I am not OK with interfering with it from that point on.
Dreameyes was responding to a post about miscarriages rather than contraceptives.
But if you take Dreameyes viewpoint combined with kaykay's, you must come to the conclusion that god is an abortionist. There is really no other rational conclusion.
From my point of view, no, there is never a time abortion is OK. I am even against contraceptives that work by not allowing a fertilized egg to be implanted. My point of view is that when sperm unites with the egg, you have life. I am not OK with interfering with it from that point on.
We are pretty much in agreement. It's a very difficult subject, anyone who was around when we had the PTA debate saw that there are very complex issues with this subject.
I have a question for kaykay or alpha or whoever wants to answer. I know this has been discussed to death but is there ever a time when abortion would be ok? I mean what about like the day after you found out you were pregnant? I know only God knows when "the quickening" occurs but when do you think? This is a sincere question and not meant to stir anything up.
The moment and egg and sperm join, things like sex, hair color, skin tone, and almost all physical features are determined. I personally could not say even if abortion is acceptible. When life is created only God has the right to take it back. My heart says that the only time abortion is acceptible is when two lives hang in the balance and only one can survive.
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). These are the only times for myself and my wife that we (regrettably) agree with an abortion personally. We both feel strongly that abortion should not be used as a form of birth control, as we have both personally known people to do repeatedly. 