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So, where can I find this spiritual fossil record? The things that have been produced by human consciousness and recorded about God be seen or touched or do I have to take it all on faith? I'm assuming that is the case.
I'll take a stab at seeing it as a rather speculative interpretation of myth to fit the theory.
This is the stuff of cult and religion, whether it it is Atlantis and a postulated empire of sea -kings, Gods from outer space and a postulated link with Sumerian myth or Jacques Vallee and his interpretations of Fairies and Goblin - stories as encounters with Flying saucer pilots.
We must be careful of taking a sorts of 'I have seen God' experience and then looking around for evidence to prop up the conclusion. It is ok as a hypothesis but it now needs some proof. Al that we are getting is trying to discredit the equally possible material theory which actually HAS evidential support by pointing (for all the world like the Creationists with abiogenesis) to some questions we are still working on.
At best we can only opt for 'we don't know - yet' rather than 'I do know because of my religious experience'.
Don't be an ass and extract a single word, sans . . . the Bible, the Hindu Upanishads, Buddhist interpretations, the Egyptian Gods, the Sumerian Epic of Gilgamesh, myriad other scriptures, mystical philosophies, Persian philosophies, Eastern philosophies, etc. etc. There is a considerable library of spiritual musings by our species from very early on. Finding the common thread was very confirming for me.
Don't be an ass and extract a single word, sans . . . the Bible, the Hindu Upanishads, Buddhist interpretations, the Egyptian Gods, the Sumerian Epic of Gilgamesh, myriad other scriptures, mystical philosophies, Persian philosophies, Eastern philosophies, etc. etc. There is a considerable library of spiritual musings by our species from very early on. Finding the common thread was very confirming for me.
Believe whatever you like, but they are all myths, legends and ancient fiction as far as I'm concerned.
I guess that depends if the one you are calling stupid actually IS stupid, but no matter how one person describes another it doesn't reflect back on the describer...For instance I don't hesitate to call Fred Phelps a dangerous bigot...Do you think that makes me the same?....It is a ludicrous idea that has no validity whatsoever.
That depends. I only know you on here. To be honest, I think we all have the potential to be a dangerous bigot. You could be considered a bigot, because you are unwilling to accept anyone that is spirituals opinion. You cast out what they say, you deny that what they believe in is not real since it has no physical evidence, yet at the same time, you have not physical evidence that it does not exist.
I do not claim to have physical evidence. Yes, reiki has helped me with alot of health issues. But in order to validate that you would need to have cut me open before and after. There is no way for me to prove this to you. Guess what? I could care less if you believe me. I don't do it for you. I do it for me. If anyone ever asks for my assistance or asks for treatment, you're darn right I will help them as much as I can. They need to help themselves the rest of the way.
That is what spirituality is about. It can only be shown to you so much, you need to embrace it on your own terms and go from there. You have to do it for yourself and really want it. It's like playing any sport, the best athlete can lose every game if his head and heart are not into it.
Personally, I would not call Fred Phelps a dangerous bigot. I would call him another mislead, person. Perhaps one who does not have a healthy mind. There could actually be a medical reason for his actions, and the actions of his followers. You have to admit, he has a powerful message, misguided yes, but some people are easily swept up into this sort of thing.
That's why, because science is always striving for the facts, always trying to further hone what is known, and if incomplete evidence has lead to an incorrect assumption, the science corrects it self.
or....... you can base everything on ancient superstition written by men that thought the world was flat, knew nothing of anything that could not be seen without a microscope or telescope, and failed to understand much of what could be seen by the naked eye. And you defend it as irrefutable fact without any evidence, the willful ignorance exhibited is truly astounding.
This is my problem with atheists. They don't really have an issue with religion or spirituality, they have an issue with major religions. You automatically assume that I am Christian or is some way connected to the bible. Yes, I have read the bible many times. I do not consider myself to be of Christian or Catholic religion. My beliefs little if nothing to do with the bible and everything connected to it.
Do me a favor, stop thinking that all spiritual and religious people are fanatics. We're not all bad people. Sure we have strong opinions, who doesn't? I don't accept everything I read either, I research and form my own opinion from that research.
If you go back 4 billion yrs till today, we know how everything came to be, and there was nothing supernatural about, no virgin births, dead men walking!
I am just going to ask... In regards to science and discovering everything about everything, why do we need to know? Does it really matter? Does it really make a difference in the long run? Sure we have assisted the healing process for many ailments, we have cured diseases and prolonged the average life span, only to have created new diseases, ailments and increase the cost of living so that the average life span is one constantly in struggle. Yup, science has done this. Not religion. Religion didn't make the atomic bomb. Religion didn't create the gun or bullet, religion didn't create WMD's, chemical weapons, and it certainly has never genetically modified anything. Did you know that right now scientists are modifying diseases so that they are harder to destroy? Why would you purposely do that? It makes no sense and serves no cause other than to do harm.
Sure science has done some wonderful things, not for the greater good of mankind, but for the greater good of the wallets of the people funding the science projects.
We need to know because as long as we don't know, all sorts of fanciful myths will be believed in and will continue to affect the thinking of credulous people. I don't know whether or not we ever will know, but it is the greatest question of all and deserves every effort to be found out. It seems to me that you don't want us to know, or to attempt to find out, as it would put paid to cherished beliefs.
Don't be an ass and extract a single word, sans . . . the Bible, the Hindu Upanishads, Buddhist interpretations, the Egyptian Gods, the Sumerian Epic of Gilgamesh, myriad other scriptures, mystical philosophies, Persian philosophies, Eastern philosophies, etc. etc. There is a considerable library of spiritual musings by our species from very early on. Finding the common thread was very confirming for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur
Believe whatever you like, but they are all myths, legends and ancient fiction as far as I'm concerned.
I think that is generally accepted by most of the world -other than those who happen to believe their own particular myths.
What it comes down to essentially is that they all are groping towards the same idea. There's no denying it. What one has to ask is whether that idea represents an innate understanding of a greater reality, or just an instinctive way of answering all questions by projecting an evolved instinct to respect the tribal and family elders into the sky where inexplicable things happen.
So far i'd say what we have discovered tends to suggest the latter - that, rather than there being any gods or inner revelations from them, we are getting all this stuff from the same lobes and nodes within our brains.
At the least we cannot definitely one way or the other until some relevant research is done and that means that we cannot prejudge the result (even if we have the best constructed theory of what 'god' is) and must remain agnostic. And agnosticism requires suspension of belief, not indulgence of it or in it.
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