Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jimmiej it is never right to do what the father is doing. You do not shun, ignore, or turn away your family because they not acting in a way you think they should.
Jazzymom, you hit the nail square on the head.
My maternal grandfather was a minister, then a State Overseer, and later a Bishop, in a denomination that has now become part of the Assemblies of God. [Can you say "pentecostal?" I knew you could!] I remember often hearing him say, and frequently from the pulpit, "Deplore the sin, but love the sinner." Were he still living, I suspect his advice to this father would be exactly that. This woman is no less of a person, no less of a family member, nor any less a child of God, because of her homosexuality.
By the way, we had the same exact thing happen on my mother's side of the family, several years after my grandfather's death. To us grandkids, our cousin is no less loved, cherished or respected because of her sexual orientation. She's still our cousin, and a wonderful one at that!
Our parents and their siblings had a more difficult time with it, and her parents (and sister) nearly had strokes, but all of them came around pretty quickly. They deplore her behavior (some call it a lifestyle), but they still love, honor and respect her as a person. Heck, they'll even hug her!!!!!
does anyone understand where he's coming from in a biblical standpoint? not agree just understand? people throw up the woman at the well and he says Jesus said "go and sin no more". so it wasn't like Jesus was all cool with her, he admonished her.
IMO she's (my daughter) not
in his church Moderator cut: delete
Last edited by Miss Blue; 02-15-2011 at 08:17 PM..
Reason: language
One extreme--I suppose that might be the correct word--action to take is to "excommunicate" your Father from yourself and the family.
Your Father, and others like him, who have changed the very simple philosophy of Christ into supporting prejudice and bigotry, and yet call themselves Christians must be called into account for their very anti-Christian beliefs.
Like other posters here, Christ never ever laid down any conditions for whom to love and when to love them. It was unconditional love, irregardless of <enter the type of societal division preferred> and level of IQ and EQ.
Secondly, as long as we have the uneducated Imams of Christianity running around, purposely mistranslating Paul and his perversion of Christ's philosophy, we are just continuing the never-ending May Pole parade of hate, disguised as some kind of Christ righteousness.
It is so important to understand the environment of Paul's day. Even a few episodes of Rome and Sparticus (Season 1) might just enlighten the brains of closed-minded evangelists. Our ancestors 2,000 years ago were not more barbaric or animalistic than we are today: they just demonstrated it more openly and freely.
Homosexuality and open-court prostitution were part and parcel (in public, now) of religious ceremonies. The Earth (Gaia) needed help in getting pregnant so that life would continue, and to help the gods "get it on" celestially, human beings had to "get it on" physically--if not to show the forgetful gods how to do it but to get excited enough to do it.
All Paul was saying was that to be a Christian, you could not also belong to a pagan church. In addition, Paul was also trying to reshape a society more in lines with a good Jewish family. [One must not forget that it was also Paul who said to die a virgin would gain the highest honor in heaven; but then he had to change his tune when he realized that Christ was not returning any time soon. Christians were going to have to beget more Christians if the movement was going to survive.]
And Paul was extremely bigotted himself. Look at the "big fight" he had with Peter, who was willing to act Jewish on one day and Gentile on the other. Apparently, Paul won the argument. If not in actuality, in a historical viewpoint the ardent Missionaries that polluted new lands with their own versions of the Christ's philosophies won the argument for Paul. Out with all the old customs and in with the one and only "right(eous)" customs of Christianity! [But then again, what is laughable from a historical point of view is that the new Christians just adapted some of their "pagan" rites and stories onto the new Christian root. Most of these very same Missionaries kind of gave up on changing that, since they prayed God would forgive the ignorance of the newly baptized and saved.]
---------
You know, a little knowledge is very dangerous. My own father took great delight in beating me on the average of twice a day. He loved to quote Paul in that verse: Children, obey your parents. After college, when he squared on me once again, I asked him if he read the passage following that: Parents, do not move your children to anger.
He was abashed. It was better than the dreams of ripping his heart out of his chest while he was still alive, that seeing his beating heart would be the last thing he would see. In that instance, he realized what he had done in life to me, and I believed he was genuinely sorry.
Of course, by then, even that did not improve much our relationship, which was in the toilet by the age of 8. Christ said to love my father; he did not say that I had to like my father. A slap of reality was good for my father; and it was good for me, too. Because I learned a lot about forgiveness at the same time.
does anyone understand where he's coming from in a biblical standpoint? not agree just understand? people throw up the woman at the well and he says Jesus said "go and sin no more". so it wasn't like Jesus was all cool with her, he admonished her.
IMO she's (my daughter) not in his church so he can **** off as far as I'm concerned.
Perhaps he is thinking of this passage:
1 Corinthians 5
9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.
One extreme--I suppose that might be the correct word--action to take is to "excommunicate" your Father from yourself and the family.
Your Father, and others like him, who have changed the very simple philosophy of Christ into supporting prejudice and bigotry, and yet call themselves Christians must be called into account for their very anti-Christian beliefs.
Like other posters here, Christ never ever laid down any conditions for whom to love and when to love them. It was unconditional love, irregardless of <enter the type of societal division preferred> and level of IQ and EQ.
Secondly, as long as we have the uneducated Imams of Christianity running around, purposely mistranslating Paul and his perversion of Christ's philosophy, we are just continuing the never-ending May Pole parade of hate, disguised as some kind of Christ righteousness.
It is so important to understand the environment of Paul's day. Even a few episodes of Rome and Sparticus (Season 1) might just enlighten the brains of closed-minded evangelists. Our ancestors 2,000 years ago were not more barbaric or animalistic than we are today: they just demonstrated it more openly and freely.
Homosexuality and open-court prostitution were part and parcel (in public, now) of religious ceremonies. The Earth (Gaia) needed help in getting pregnant so that life would continue, and to help the gods "get it on" celestially, human beings had to "get it on" physically--if not to show the forgetful gods how to do it but to get excited enough to do it.
All Paul was saying was that to be a Christian, you could not also belong to a pagan church. In addition, Paul was also trying to reshape a society more in lines with a good Jewish family. [One must not forget that it was also Paul who said to die a virgin would gain the highest honor in heaven; but then he had to change his tune when he realized that Christ was not returning any time soon. Christians were going to have to beget more Christians if the movement was going to survive.]
And Paul was extremely bigotted himself. Look at the "big fight" he had with Peter, who was willing to act Jewish on one day and Gentile on the other. Apparently, Paul won the argument. If not in actuality, in a historical viewpoint the ardent Missionaries that polluted new lands with their own versions of the Christ's philosophies won the argument for Paul. Out with all the old customs and in with the one and only "right(eous)" customs of Christianity! [But then again, what is laughable from a historical point of view is that the new Christians just adapted some of their "pagan" rites and stories onto the new Christian root. Most of these very same Missionaries kind of gave up on changing that, since they prayed God would forgive the ignorance of the newly baptized and saved.]
---------
You know, a little knowledge is very dangerous. My own father took great delight in beating me on the average of twice a day. He loved to quote Paul in that verse: Children, obey your parents. After college, when he squared on me once again, I asked him if he read the passage following that: Parents, do not move your children to anger.
He was abashed. It was better than the dreams of ripping his heart out of his chest while he was still alive, that seeing his beating heart would be the last thing he would see. In that instance, he realized what he had done in life to me, and I believed he was genuinely sorry.
Of course, by then, even that did not improve much our relationship, which was in the toilet by the age of 8. Christ said to love my father; he did not say that I had to like my father. A slap of reality was good for my father; and it was good for me, too. Because I learned a lot about forgiveness at the same time.
EXACT type of answer i'm looking for, thank you so much. I will read it word for word very slowly tomorrow when I have more time. Thanks again.
Oh when i was 16 I told my dad I wouldn't let him hit me with the belt anymore. Long story short I took that one more beating but that was it. I will admit i usually deserved discipline when i got it though and he was never angry when he did it.
It's simply easier to disown ALL your relatives once you become a legal adult, and independent of them. Who says "family" is important anyhow?
lol,i think CD wouldnt be the same without good oul TKramar and his overly negative answers,i know its what you feel but i get a good laugh out of it if you dont mind,
11But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.
This is from Paul's first letter to the people of Corinth, now commonly known as First Corinthians. As one reads this, one must also understand that Paul had his own personal agenda, and not all of it was purely "Christian" in nature. In keeping with earlier posts, take careful note that homosexuality isn't mentioned -- only the phrase "sexually immoral"...
It's amazing, isn't it, how human beings can distort, misinterpret, and otherwise misrepresent things...
Regards,
-- Nighteyes (who follows the teachings of Christ as he understands them)
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
,