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Luke 18:18-22 A certain ruler asked him, "Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
[19] "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good -- except God alone. [20] You know the commandments: 'Do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.'"
[21] "All these I have kept since I was a boy," he said.
[22] When Jesus heard this, he said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor then come, follow me."
When one thinks about the nearly a billion poor, sick, starving people in the world, mostly children, and sees the parking lots full of new cars on Sunday mornings it appears to me that there's another verse they have omitted...at least in their minds:
Matthew 5:48
Be you therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Luke 18:18-22 A certain ruler asked him, "Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
[19] "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good -- except God alone. [20] You know the commandments: 'Do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.'"
[21] "All these I have kept since I was a boy," he said.
[22] When Jesus heard this, he said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor then come, follow me."
When one thinks about the nearly a billion poor, sick, starving people in the world, mostly children, and sees the parking lots full of new cars on Sunday mornings it appears to me that there's another verse they have omitted...at least in their minds:
Matthew 5:48
Be you therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
It certainly makes one wonder about the "10 percent" that is collected. (NOT)
During my brief stint in the LDS church, one admirable thing that stood out was the seriousness about tithing, and how a large majority follow it. This is reflected at church functions the most. I never had to pay for any meal, meetings, books, etc. No one in my family, it was all free. I can't put a number on it (over 20, though), but nearly every other church I visited or regularly attended, asked for money ALL THE TIME. We once visited a Baptist church in El Paso, TX, and were invited to the gym after service for a fellowship meal. After the service, someone showed us where it was at, but at the door before going in to eat, we were asked for $6 each. We left.
Say what you will about the Mormons, but they put their money where their mouth is and I respect that.
I have often wondered this as well. There seems to be a "pick and mix" approach to Christianity which puzzles me. A lot of Christians for example will give money to charity but only Christian charities who often offer relief and aid but with a not so hidden agenda of bringing the "truth " to the poor uncivilised souls in the third world for example.
I have volunteered for charities since I was 13 and most people I see who seem to dedicate their lives to working on behalf of others ( and I am NOT one of those , I am way too selfish I am afraid to dedicate my life to it) tend to be either Atheist, Agnostic or extremely moderate religious people.
Fundamentalist Christians, those who live by the bible, never seem to give up their worldly goods as Jesus would expect them to, and do not seem to be that interested in working for the well being of God's creatures, such as eradicating war , famine, poverty, human trafficking, economic slavery, child labour, human rights abuses etc... Certainly not simply for the sake of goodness anyway. If they give there usually strings attached...
The most socially militant people I know ( and I know a heck of a lot ) are never those fundamentalists who claim to spread the word of the Lord .
In fact it seems to me the more fundamentalist the less interested in relieving the poor and the vulnerable, the sick and the lame, the oppressed and the bullied...
I always thought Christianity was about "what would Jesus do ?", so how come so many churches are so rich ( and often politically powerful) they could solve all those social and economic issues but prefer to have grand buildings and billions of dollars invested in morally dubious schemes ?
How come so many Christians follow leaders who are millionaires and are happy to condone this obscene wealth ( and of course contribute to it with tithes , merchandise, meeting rallyes, tv and radio channels etc.. ) when hundreds of millions of people around the world have not enough to eat and are abused, raped and murdered , exploited and enslaved ? Odd that.
How come so many of our so called politicians who claim to be "Christians" also have mansions, are worth millions and millions, spend obscene amounts of money on very worldly possessions ?
I cannot imagine Jesus driving a sports car, wearing Armani , having a Rolex on his wrist and eating at swanky restaurants whilst millions starve or are treated like dirt. I cannot imagine Jesus shopping at Wal-Mart or using any ethically/environmentally immoral corporations as a shopper... He striked me more as a "greenie" , someone who would be pretty careful about where and what he bought, where his money went and I would think he would find it more important to feed the poor and live what he preached than simply point the finger and fill his coffers to the brim... Maybe I am wrong.
Surely the more fundamentalist and the more "Christ-like" ?!
I always thought rather highly of Jesus ( if he ever existed he seemed pretty radical and at least lived what he preached which is pretty rare) and cannot imagine him being very pleased with the terribly worldly , arrogant, and judgemental attitude of his so called followers.
I think at the end of the day human nature always wins out it seems , greed, lust, violence, rapaciousness, hatred and intolerance a lot easier than turning the other cheek and being truly "Christ-like".
As the saying goes and to paraphrase "I have nothing against Jesus, it's his fan club I often cannot stand".
Because, especially in America, the "saved by grace alone" crowd is very strong. If you ask them to do anything, anything at all you are "tying them down with grievous burdens" and Jesus came to "set them free." Remember "works" won't save you, all of that BS. Their supposed leader, Jesus, came to earth and was reportedly perfect in all he did, yet Christians never live up to that standard. They ignore the whole NT except the crucifixion. The word hypocrite comes to mind.
Why should anyone feel obligated to help anyone other than themselves? I'm not an altruist, never wanted to be, never claimed to be.
I've said before, I've never let "religion" get in the way of me living my life the way I wanted to. It really doesn't matter, in the long run, if I believe or not. And the only reason I do is the potential for reward if God exists. If God doesn't, then it doesn't matter whether I believe or not. I'm only seeking to gain reward and avoid punishment, and there's no other reason for "belief". It's completely self-serving, in my case.
I have often wondered this as well. There seems to be a "pick and mix" approach to Christianity which puzzles me. A lot of Christians for example will give money to charity but only Christian charities who often offer relief and aid but with a not so hidden agenda of bringing the "truth " to the poor uncivilised souls in the third world for example.
I have volunteered for charities since I was 13 and most people I see who seem to dedicate their lives to working on behalf of others ( and I am NOT one of those , I am way too selfish I am afraid to dedicate my life to it) tend to be either Atheist, Agnostic or extremely moderate religious people.
Fundamentalist Christians, those who live by the bible, never seem to give up their worldly goods as Jesus would expect them to, and do not seem to be that interested in working for the well being of God's creatures, such as eradicating war , famine, poverty, human trafficking, economic slavery, child labour, human rights abuses etc... Certainly not simply for the sake of goodness anyway. If they give there usually strings attached...
The most socially militant people I know ( and I know a heck of a lot ) are never those fundamentalists who claim to spread the word of the Lord .
In fact it seems to me the more fundamentalist the less interested in relieving the poor and the vulnerable, the sick and the lame, the oppressed and the bullied...
I always thought Christianity was about "what would Jesus do ?", so how come so many churches are so rich ( and often politically powerful) they could solve all those social and economic issues but prefer to have grand buildings and billions of dollars invested in morally dubious schemes ?
How come so many Christians follow leaders who are millionaires and are happy to condone this obscene wealth ( and of course contribute to it with tithes , merchandise, meeting rallyes, tv and radio channels etc.. ) when hundreds of millions of people around the world have not enough to eat and are abused, raped and murdered , exploited and enslaved ? Odd that.
How come so many of our so called politicians who claim to be "Christians" also have mansions, are worth millions and millions, spend obscene amounts of money on very worldly possessions ?
I cannot imagine Jesus driving a sports car, wearing Armani , having a Rolex on his wrist and eating at swanky restaurants whilst millions starve or are treated like dirt. I cannot imagine Jesus shopping at Wal-Mart or using any ethically/environmentally immoral corporations as a shopper... He striked me more as a "greenie" , someone who would be pretty careful about where and what he bought, where his money went and I would think he would find it more important to feed the poor and live what he preached than simply point the finger and fill his coffers to the brim... Maybe I am wrong.
Surely the more fundamentalist and the more "Christ-like" ?!
I always thought rather highly of Jesus ( if he ever existed he seemed pretty radical and at least lived what he preached which is pretty rare) and cannot imagine him being very pleased with the terribly worldly , arrogant, and judgemental attitude of his so called followers.
I think at the end of the day human nature always wins out it seems , greed, lust, violence, rapaciousness, hatred and intolerance a lot easier than turning the other cheek and being truly "Christ-like".
As the saying goes and to paraphrase "I have nothing against Jesus, it's his fan club I often cannot stand".
I've posted my feelings here so often that I have considered changing my name to something like, "Mr. Redundancy" but...having said that I will bore folks with another repeat.
The cold hard facts are that Christians, even those who tithe their gross earnings, have done little for the poor. First there's the church building, and additions, and modifications, mortgages, etc. Then any decent church must have oak or mahagony pews, carpeting, stained glass, steeples, musical instruments and expensive sound systems and maintenance also takes something. Preacher's salary, home, travel expenses, sometimes even a car is provided. There's a percentage which goes to the particular convention or headquarters of the church. There's youth programs, religious retreats and goodness knows any self respecting religious organization has to send missionairies to other countries in an attempt to change their beliefs and consequently their cultures. Bottom line...very little of what is placed in the collection plate gets to the sick and/or hungry...very little indeed.
A modern typical Christian gives 2-4 hours a week of their time and 10%-15% of their "NET" earnings and that's enough to make them feel good.
Luke 18:18-22 A certain ruler asked him, "Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
[19] "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good -- except God alone. [20] You know the commandments: 'Do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.'"
[21] "All these I have kept since I was a boy," he said.
[22] When Jesus heard this, he said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor then come, follow me."
When one thinks about the nearly a billion poor, sick, starving people in the world, mostly children, and sees the parking lots full of new cars on Sunday mornings it appears to me that there's another verse they have omitted...at least in their minds:
Matthew 5:48
Be you therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Well Melvin, who can be as perfect as God? And if you understood what Jesus was saying you would of understood that the verse in question came from the Sermon on the Mount. And that sermon was telling the Jews of that time that no one will be justified by the works of the law. The fact is Christians have so many missions around the globe helping the poor that it puts most goverments to shame. Long before America or any other nation tried to help the poor Christians were being sent across the globe building hospitals, schools, and drilling wells for clean water,ect.How many hospitals, schools, and medical facilities have you non believers built over the last 200 years? Or have you been to busy attacking Christians to have time for that?
Well Melvin, who can be as perfect as God? And if you understood what Jesus was saying you would of understood that the verse in question came from the Sermon on the Mount. And that sermon was telling the Jews of that time that no one will be justified by the works of the law. The fact is Christians have so many missions around the globe helping the poor that it puts most goverments to shame. Long before America or any other nation tried to help the poor Christians were being sent across the globe building hospitals, schools, and drilling wells for clean water,ect.How many hospitals, schools, and medical facilities have you non believers built over the last 200 years? Or have you been to busy attacking Christians to have time for that?
Nobody is denying Christian Charities have achieved a lot . However I do wonder how many of those charities came with strings attached such as conversion ? From my experience as an Atheist who has been doing charity work for almost 30 years , a lot ( not all ) of Christian charities come with a hefty price of conversion and trying to change people's beliefs and native traditions.
I did a stint for Medecins sans Frontieres ( which is non religious ) in Africa and I saw so much Aid from Christian charities coming as part of a Missionary package.... Same in South America , especially among Native Tribes.
As an Anthropologist it seems to me from experience that not so many Christians can give Aid without wanting to change the people , wanting them to hear "the truth" .
Aid , wether medical or economic should be given totally freely WITHOUT any strings attached, without any agenda. We should be helping others because it is the right and moral thing to do without preaching .
I have seen so many Native populations treated as Inferior, Barbaric and backwards because they did not fit the Christian Western Mould and that to me is a crime.
Yes I have also met dedicated Christians who dedicate their entire lives to good work for NO other reason than because they are needed, but it is pretty rare in my experience.
I worked with a wonderful group of Nuns and Priests in Uganda and never once did I see them preach or even mention their religion to anyone but they were almost unique. I also saw dozens of Christian groups preaching, ranting and telling the Natives why their ways were wrong and how they needed to change. The arrogance was staggering.
Good deeds should be done without ANY agenda.
A gift is meaningless if you put a price to pay on it. It ceases to be a gift but emotional blackmail. To prey on the most vulnerable and the poorest by dangling precious gifts like food, clothes, wells, hospitals etc.. but expecting conversion in return to me is truly twisted.
For a start those conversions are obtained under duress and are IMO completely pointless.
I am pretty sure most starving people would surrender their dignity to feed their children. I know I would.
They do not need the extra pressure .
yes Christians have done a lot of good. But I question their motives and sometimes even their results when entire Native populations are blackmailed into surrendering their culture, language, traditions and their Ethnic dignity.
In my considerable experience as a charity worker, there is usually one hand offering rice and vaccines whilst the other one firmly holds a bible...
Maybe your experience of Charity work in the third world is different to mine ?! Shall we compare notes ?
Also I would argue that unless the Church completely exhausts its entire funds on good works ( and with no preaching of any kind) then it is basically failing.
There should be no rich churches , no rich evangelists and no rich Christians. Not until the very last of the poor has been fed, the very last child labourer freed economically, the very last war fought, the very last human right abuse perpetrated then surely Jesus would not rest ?
Perhaps I do not understand Jesus as you do. I saw him as one of the good guys, having no interest in the material world at all. No interest in shiny baubles of any kind. He did not need any church building when he preached, no salary . I certainly do not think he would approve of millionaire members and preachers whilst his children ( as he is God too) were dying of hunger and abused all over the world.
Well Melvin, who can be as perfect as God? And if you understood what Jesus was saying you would of understood that the verse in question came from the Sermon on the Mount. And that sermon was telling the Jews of that time that no one will be justified by the works of the law. The fact is Christians have so many missions around the globe helping the poor that it puts most goverments to shame. Long before America or any other nation tried to help the poor Christians were being sent across the globe building hospitals, schools, and drilling wells for clean water,ect.How many hospitals, schools, and medical facilities have you non believers built over the last 200 years? Or have you been to busy attacking Christians to have time for that?
Seems I remember something like Turn The Other Cheek... Walk The Extra Mile...Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You...Love Thy Neighbor...Love Thine Enemies...Pray For Those Who Curse And Despise You...If Sued In Court For Coat, Voluntarily Give Cloak
So Far I've Never Met Anybody Like That! 'Course I'm Just 76
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Shall we compare notes ? 
