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Mystic obviously knows what he is talking about even if I don't and his Universal field theory is very well worked out even if it is only a theory.
I am not so convinced as you as I have seen nothing but hand waving and obfuscation from said user, coupled with personal insults and cop outs such as "I dont have the time".
Maybe you can help me though. Can you put what you think the user is saying in your own words. Maybe I am missing something and sometimes a fresh perspective of someone elses words can be enlightening.
Your diety is neither the first nor the last "true god that created the universe".
Fact of the matter is that there is no evidence whatsoever of a god or creator - none, zip, zero, nada.
Their "strongest" argument is "creation (the universe) exists, therefore there must be a creator", as the state most assuredly that the Universe couldn't just "exist", but, rather, that some "one" had to create it, i.e. god.
However, when you turn that login back upon them and say "if something couldn't just exist, but had to be created by "someone", who created your god, they suddenly flip flow and say he always existed.
A direct contradiciton of themselves.
One hand (the onle holding the Universe), it could NOT had existed forever, but must have been created by a creator (god)
The other hand (god) COULD have existed forever the ned NOT be attributed to a creator.
All this because they are afraid to face mortality and must invent a life after death, and a religion to provide context. It's all about being saved from death.
Cowardly, if you ask me.
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(Sorry, I don't know how to quote. >.>)
First, I gotta say that I don't agree with judging atheism against science or anything else. They are their own people and they have the right to believe whatever the hell they want. Also, I'm not an atheist and I never have been, so I have absoutely no first-hand experience and can therefore make no proper judgement on the matter.
However, I am perfectly allowed to state my own disagreement of the 'belief'. You have no right to judge me on my opinion, just as I do not have the right to judge you. From your own words, I am going to infer that you are not religious - in fact, I'm guessing you're probably an atheist. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) But clearly, you are not a Christian of any kind, nor have you ever been. Therefore, how dare you judge me as cowardly when you have no real experience about what I believe? For your information, I do not believe there is life after death. The Bible says very clearly that the dead know nothing.
"For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even their name is forgotten." Ecclesiastes 9:5 NIV
In light of this rather candid statement (and don't tell me this can be misunderstood, it's pretty clear what it means), I think your accusation of cowardice is nothing more the YOUR naïve attempt to feel better than everyone who does not view the world in such a bleak and hopeless manner as you.
ninkjakitty, I'm thinking that you're claiming that all of us atheists have bleak and sad lives, is that so? Surely this is not what you think. Or is it?
Most of us atheists have, indeed, been Christians in our past, and hav been subjected to the standard proselytizing. IMHO, much of Christianity is indeed based on finding some means to avoid the unfathomable concept of a final and absolute death, with literally nowhere to go and hide/escape. So they are indeed ready to fulfill any necessary proscribed "12 Step Program" in order to be Saved! I hear and see it all the time, and certainly did hear those very threats from my priest & ministers in my very Christian youth.
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Bwah-hah-hahhhhhh! said the Evil™ Atheist! ......................
First, I gotta say that I don't agree with judging atheism against science or anything else. They are their own people and they have the right to believe whatever the hell they want. Also, I'm not an atheist and I never have been, so I have absoutely no first-hand experience and can therefore make no proper judgement on the matter.
However, I am perfectly allowed to state my own disagreement of the 'belief'. You have no right to judge me on my opinion, just as I do not have the right to judge you. From your own words, I am going to infer that you are not religious - in fact, I'm guessing you're probably an atheist. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) But clearly, you are not a Christian of any kind, nor have you ever been. Therefore, how dare you judge me as cowardly when you have no real experience about what I believe? For your information, I do not believe there is life after death. The Bible says very clearly that the dead know nothing.
"For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even their name is forgotten." Ecclesiastes 9:5 NIV
In light of this rather candid statement (and don't tell me this can be misunderstood, it's pretty clear what it means), I think your accusation of cowardice is nothing more the YOUR naïve attempt to feel better than everyone who does not view the world in such a bleak and hopeless manner as you.
I agree with judging atheism against science or anything else. Because if atheism ever regards itself as being above comment, criticism or evaluation, then it will indeed have become a religion.
Simple Spiritual Philosophy 101. Outright-rejected for what reasons?
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA
I agree with judging atheism against science or anything else. Because if atheism ever regards itself as being above comment, criticism or evaluation, then it will indeed have become a religion.
V. insightful.
I'm curious; I wonder exactly what specific criticisms could come possibly to bear against atheism as an individual thinker's chosen point of view. To remain open to all the worldly and spiritual options, but having thought and sorted through it carefully, to then discount just one of them. OMG, huh?
And therfore to choose to not believe in The Glorious Abrahamic God because of.... well, all the rational reasons to discount an ancient, contradictory and unsubstantiated fairy tale.
It must be that it really bothers the heck out of those who have, perhaps with less intellectual effort, chosen to believe in it all, without ever seriously questioning it. Questioning a philosophy doesn't usually occur at the beginning of someone's relationship with it; that only occurs after a lengthy relationship, in which the inevitable questions and flaws tend to surface. By that time, in Christianity's overall paradigm, it's too late. So... one can either simply turn away with a silly grin on the face and not want to look into the issues with intensity ands honesty. Or, one can take the subject on with honesty.
But for the majority of believers, at some point in their life's intellectual growth-curve, too much is at stake apparently to risk being "wrong" and having to re-invest all that time. As if, once you've taken and barely passed the Godly Learners License, you don't want to ever learn anything else, ever again.
Especially when it's all so very comfy to just let sleeping dinosaurs lay. And when there's that nagging little but virally growing idea, once a person starts to examine their life and beliefs, and the evidence for and against those beliefs, that there is, quite likely, noone true philosophy, or one true pathway, that it's in fact all open to constant intepretation and revision.
What a terrifying thought. For some. Quite terrifying.
I was thinking something similar. I am not sure how to evaluate or critique a LACK of a position. Atheist is about not being convinced by the claim there is a god. It is therefore not a position in and of itself but a refusal to adopt someone elses unsubstantiated position.
Will tell you a short story between a man an atheist and a Muslim man.The two men agreed on his binoculars tomorrow morning.All attended Muslim men and slightly delayed. When he attended said he told them I saw something strange.They said what. He said when you come you're at sea and Wright a big tree severed its branches on their own and made me ship. Atheist man said to him that nothing is impossible consists of everything himself without an actor. Said Muslim men and how the universe is composed without an actor. The man signed an atheist in a trap
I am not so convinced as you as I have seen nothing but hand waving and obfuscation from said user, coupled with personal insults and cop outs such as "I dont have the time".
Maybe you can help me though. Can you put what you think the user is saying in your own words. Maybe I am missing something and sometimes a fresh perspective of someone elses words can be enlightening.
Well....at the risk of a bolt of lightning from the Mystic One, I'll have a stab.
In the beginning there was a demiurge, or a will to begin creating. This was in effect the whole cosmos as an intelligence and Mystic sees Dark matter as the substance of this. This of course created everything in lines not too dissimilar to something from nothing, abiogenesis and evolution - except it needs this 'Unified field' (aka God) to do it and indeed there is no natural process that is not actually this cosmic mind. Without that, there would not be consciousness, at least not human consciousness (and I presume animal consciousness and down to physical, chemical and biochemical processes, too).
Since we are part and parcel of this Mind Aka God, it is not surprising that we get feedback from it all the time, though mostly we don't realize it and put it down to all sorts of rationalizing explanations which materialistic science has taught us to believe. But we have had contact with this mind which gradually trains us (through meditation/prayer) towards the spiritual evolution which it always intended for us. I gather that Jesus was the last 'spiritual fossil record' as Islam is apparently regarded by the Mystic one as somehow not being a valid fossil of God. But here I'd better leave it to Mystic to correct my work and direct to the scientific and quantum stuff which fleshes out this hypothesis.
I'll have a go at this, too
Quote:
Will tell you a short story between a man an atheist and a Muslim man.The two men agreed on his binoculars tomorrow morning.All attended Muslim men and slightly delayed. When he attended said he told them I saw something strange.They said what. He said when you come you're at sea and Wright a big tree severed its branches on their own and made me ship. Atheist man said to him that nothing is impossible consists of everything himself without an actor. Said Muslim men and how the universe is composed without an actor. The man signed an atheist in a trap
=Nozzferrahhtoo;25938248]^I understood every single individual word in the above post.
Together however they mean absolutely nothing at all.
Did you just feed some foreign language into "Google Translate" and copy and paste the result to the thread?
Undoubtedly. I hooked the theist dictionary into E Babel and got this
I will relate a brief story about a discussion between an atheist man and a Muslim man. It was agreed that the [two of them would see each other? cnfrmation needed] on the morrow (obs.) The Muslims turned up in great numbers and were slightly delayed.
'I saw something strange. (on the way here. sens. suposd.) ' the muslim man said.
'The assembled men asked 'what (did you see? sens. suposd.' perhaps 'thought of something' cnfrmation needed.)
'Suppose you come to/are at a large sea/ocean and a shipbuilder sees the branches of a big tree sever themselves (from the trunk sens. supsd) and assembled themselves into a ship (without the help of a shipwright. sens. supsd). (don't you think that would be a strange thing to see sens. supsd).
The atheist man replied: 'lt is not impossible. Everything that happens, happens without a maker making it happen.'
'How is the universe composed without anyone making it?' asked the Muslim men. Thus the man had drawn the atheist into a trap.
Great gadget. Terrible story.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 09-04-2012 at 12:54 PM..
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Simple Spiritual Philosophy 101. Outright-rejected for what reasons?
