Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
North, I didn't dodge anything. Half of your points had nothing to do with the topic at hand... such as bringing up the doctrine of hell, trying to discredit the Bible by citing atrocities by Yaweh, etc. You were all over the place, because I obviously hit a nerve.
Of course atheism is a worldview. Stating otherwise is simply playing word games. Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini.... they WERE ALL heavily influenced by Nietzsche, and they all did well to contribute to the bloodiest century on record. Atheism only gets a century by definition since it gained tremendous momentum starting in the 20th century. Time will tell, but it doesn't exactly have a good start, does it? Additionally, making statements like "theism has done nothing for humanity" does nothing but illustrate your close minded, biased view. The Big Bang was originally drawn up by a Belgian priest and the Christian worldview certainly has contributed to ethics, whether you say it has or not.
Ironically, you imply objective moral values do not exist, yet you make a moral judgment on the God of the Old Testament, stating what he did was really wrong... yet your moral proclamation presupposes objective morality.
Finally, you believe religion is a "morally bankrupt and intellectually dead philosophy." If that is the case, it sure has been a hit, hasn't it? Do you think you have some kind of great revelation about biblical difficulties? Perhaps you are the first to throw the idea out there that god may not exist and that Jehovah was evil? The Bible has been picked apart and dissected for almost 2000 years now. Christianity is more relevant today than it ever has been, and the Bible remains the bestselling book in the history of the world. Lots of suckers walking around, huh? I suppose they should read The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins, become atheists, and thus be liberated and freed from the shackles of religion. It will be liberating, indeed... their hope will be increased exponentially, their worth increased, and they will in general feel better about themselves and where they are headed... especially once they find out there is no hope, that they are headed toward nothingness, and that they come to the realization they do not have intrinsic worth. It sounds like atheism has much more to offer than a theistic view. Where do I sign up?
For accusing everyone else of hurt feelings that was certainly an emotional rant you had going on there.
Yes atheism is a superior "worldview" because it starts off with the truth: there is no god and there are no gods/goddesses. By the way, just because something is popular doesn't make it right. Hitler was voted into power, the people wanted him, yet that doesn't make what he did right.
And actually, Christianity is less relevant today than it ever has been, and it's becoming less and less of a threat every day. Church attendance is falling and more people are being liberated from the fairy tales of religion. It's the natural progression of science and knowledge that's going to put the final death blow into the beast of theism.
1000 years ago, the Universe was centered by the Earth, and God or Satan was responsible for everything that happened. It rained? God did it. It stormed? God did it. Someone died? God did it. And so on and so forth.
Yet through the miracle of science, logic, and using our minds we've come to learn about meteorology. We've learned to do autopsies to find out the cause of deaths. The "God of the gaps" is finding less and less gaps to fill.
Theism is a scourge on society and for thousands of years has pitted brother against brother, tribe against tribe. Thousands of wars started over something as silly as whose superstitions are "right." Religion is the bane of our existence, people will use it as a convenient excuse to commit all sorts of atrocities. It's a tool of oppression and suppression. What better tool to keep the sheep in line than to dangle the Almighty over their heads? Religion truly is the opium of the masses.
The government tells you to pray about while they swindle us and take our freedoms. Moderator cut: inappropriate language Want that new job? Pray about it. It's a way for people to feel as though they have control over their lives while Big Business/Big Government and the Military Industrial Evangelical Complex increases control over our lives and runs our country into the ground. What are we told to do? Just pray about it like good like sheep.
I really don't care what you think about it, and you can say I've got "hurt feelings" all you want it's no matter. You represent the past, an archaic worldview that is dying by the day. A worldview full of magic, superstition, death, and fear. Like it or not but atheism is the future. Science, reason, logic and ration are the wave of the future. Life is the future.
A little off topic, but no topic better illustrates how theism is the worldview of death than stem cell research. Here is an area of research that holds seemingly unlimited promise to cure all sorts of terrible aliments. We can get them from frozen embryos that are destined for the dumpster. But no says the philosophy of death, man must suffer because a clump of cells has "dignity" that needs protection. Theism retards the march of science, but alas it's only temporary. The philosophy of life will win out in the end.
You've branded us as heretics. You've burnt us at the stake. You've thrown us off cliffs. You've beheaded us. You've tried your damnedest to silence us and keep the people in-line and ignorant. But reason will always trump superstition.
"All thinking men are atheists."-Ernest Hemingway.
Sanspeur, my reply goes deeper than that. Atheism has no claim to an absolute moral law since it is based on naturalism. Relativism reigns in Atheism.
Practically speaking, it also reigns everywhere else. Witness the various different takes on slavery by different Christian groups throughout history. Or the current debate about homosexual rights and abortion. Pretending you have an absolute moral compass direct from God may feel all warm and fuzzy, but in practice it just doesn't seem to make a difference. You get the same sorts of debates as in any other group - it's a distinction without a difference.
Quote:
Now, I am not saying an atheist is unable to live a moral life... that would be nonsense, and we all know this is false; however, in order to do this the atheist has to smuggle in ethics that traditionally come from the very religions they try to dismantle.
It seems the other way around. Religions eventually catch up to secular morality if you give them enough time. The Catholic church eventually realized that they were wrong about Galileo, Mormons changed their mind on polygamy and their racist policies, and certain protestant groups are accepting of (gasp) women as leaders. Sure, they're decades or centuries behind the times but at least they eventually get there.
[color=black][font=Verdana]Of course atheism is a worldview.
More accurately, it's one specific part of a world-view. If it's really the world-view you think it is, it's pretty broad to include communists, German mystics, Randian Objectivists, Buddhist monks, anarchists, secular humanists, nihilists and all sorts of people in between. But keep trying to lump all of those groups into one monolithic block all working together. Maybe it'll keep you from killing black people or blowing up buildings like you folks with theistic world views tend to do (*).
* - hey, if we're going to pretend atheism is a world view, let's be consistent and pretend that all theistic worldviews are the same as well.
...the atheist has to smuggle in ethics that traditionally come from the very religions they try to dismantle...
I would argue that it is quite possible that religions simply co-opted the basic ethics of peaceful societal living and attempted to enforce/reinforce them by ascribing a supernatural authority to them.
No way atheism is a world view....It is simply the non belief in any deity or gods...It has nothing to do with communism, despots or politics of any kind....Why can theists not understand this simple concept?
No way atheism is a world view....It is simply the non belief in any deity or gods...It has nothing to do with communism, despots or politics of any kind....Why can theists not understand this simple concept?
Yes, exactly. Athiests could have any one of a huge number of world views. The only thing they'd have in common is of not believing in a deity. They subscribe to no belief system and to lump them under one umbrella illustrates a gross misunderstanding of who they are.
People like to claim that Hitler was a Christian, which he wasn't.
They'll claim that that Devil himself is a Christian if it's useful to their anti-religion jihad.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
