"SCIENTIFIC" Evidence of Adam & Eve's Existence (behavior, children, differences)

[monumentus]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

The love that can be experienced is quite overwhelming and life-changing . . .

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

I know that genuine experiences can powerfully affect and alter a person's beliefs . . . even when they do not have adequate (or do have absurd) intellectual explanations or rationales for them.

You would do well to take your own advice on these things. I too have had powerful and life changing experiences. The difference is I do not throw out totally unconnected conclusions based on them - such as declaring there is a god or that the whole universe is itself concious.

You had some experiences once. That is great for you. But you have since thrown out nonsense conclusions based on them - engaged in decades long confirmation bias campaigns with yourself trying to validates those nonsense conclusions - and have - to use your own words - inadequate and even absurd explations and rationales for them.

[Heathen Hammer]

Originally Posted by r0339

Enough said. Now I'm going to wait and see what kind of responses I receive..


so there's really need to reply. .

https://www.city-data.com/forum/image...ies/oglvvd.gif

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

Not cut and dried . . . I am not quite as cynical, Heathen. I know that genuine experiences can powerfully affect and alter a person's beliefs . . . even when they do not have adequate (or do have absurd) intellectual explanations or rationales for them. Unfortunately, if their rationales ever become sufficiently untenable through education or whatever . . . they can end up like Hueff . . . rejecting all personal experiences as invalid.

Alas, I am that cynical. I would point out that, one must judge their personal experiences using rational explanations and rationales; to do otherwise is just to give in to fantasy. It is possible that people can wind up at solipsism but I don't find this common. It's an extreme. Most people don't go far. What I particularly look out for in these circles are the obvious attention-seekers who think so highly of themselves that their spiritual view is a child's hyperbole of how the world must bow to their wishes and feelings rather than vice versa. And these are adults Im talking about. It's all around us, even right now. Im not the type to coddle such people simply for political correctness. Coddling such types is why my [or our?] country is laughed at right now in scientific [and political] circles.

All viewpoints may have freedom to exist, but not all are equal. The ones judged correctly as 'poor', don't get to stand in any winner's circle with the good ones.

[Heathen Hammer]

"Few people can see the genius in someone who has offended them."

I live with this truth on a daily basis. It certainly happened here yesterday.

[KCfromNC]

Originally Posted by r0339

Rifleman & Heathen, this thread is closed on my end.

Yeah, that's what, the 3rd time you've returned here to tell us you're not coming back again. Very convincing.

[Heathen Hammer]

Yes, an unsuccessful attempt to end a discussion via the preemptive last word, and without making or refuting any point..

Essentially, someone in our midst was shown to be wrong about something, and rather than deal with this maturely and reassess themselves, they feel more comfortable regarding everyone around them as persecutors. Because then, the information provided can be ignored as false, as it belongs to some sort of targeted conspiracy. In a sense I alluded to such things occurring before they happened. But I prefer not to be known as a prophet, thank you.

[Nozzferrahhtoo]

Originally Posted by KCfromNC

Yeah, that's what, the 3rd time you've returned here to tell us you're not coming back again. Very convincing.

Nozz's first rule of Internet posting: The probability of a user posting again in a thread increases in proportion to the number of times that user has claimed they will not be posting again in that thread.

[mroge]

I am certainly not an expert on evolution, but I am open to learning more. Everything that I have learned so far confirms evolution as a fact. I am not an athiest but I wonder why so many Christians try to twist the scientific facts to fit their interpretation of the Bible. They are not trying to defend their faith, because they don't have any. What they are trying to defend against is their fear that someone else might be right.

Personally my belief in God is independent of a literal interpretation of the Bible. I am not a Bible-worshiper and I don't push my faith on others. Some Christians on here have gotten angry with the responses of the athiests. They consider them to be intolerant and closed minded. From my perspective the athiests (and including me, although I am not an athiest) are upset with Christians trying to force their ideology on others. I personally don't believe it is my business to correct anybody unless they insist on telling me what to believe. When Christians want creationism taught in the schools despite the fact that there is no science involved, then they are the ones attacking others. When they insist that the Bible is inerrant (which is the real motive for pushing creationism) then they can rationalize the mistreatment of others and proclaim moral authority.

So people get off your high horses. Until you stop stomping on others for what they believe and don't even look at the evidence for evolution then you have no credibility at all.

[r0339]

Thanks for the all responses to my last post. They were quite informative.

One hopes that people would understand the difference between "showing a person wrong" and actually "convincing the person of another point of view." In my case none of you have done the latter, primarily because I haven't found any of your arguments convincing. One would hope that people would accept that others have the right to see things their own way, rather than implying those who are not convinced by their arguments have secondary motives, or are incapable, or are just holding onto their position out of spite.

And I am not alone. A 1995 survey attributed to the Encyclopædia Britannica indicates that the non-religious are about 14.7% of the world's population, and atheists around 3.8%. Another survey attributed to Britannica shows the population of atheists at around 2.4% of the world's population (both from Wikipedia). So the vast majority of mankind believes in some form of a God, whether or not it makes sense to the few who inhabit this list.

So what would you Nogodders have me conclude? That over 80% of humanity is insane and believes in fairy tales? Or is it perhaps more psychologically sound to conclude the majority of mankind realizes our universe, with its infinite complexity, and which science has proven did not exist at some point in the past, probably did not assemble itself out of unintelligent gravitational forces. You see, it does not matter how much Nogodders impress themselves with their complex logic, the majority of humanity simply does not buy into the idea that there's no God.

So what's the point of the Nogod religion? Even if evolution were to be observed and proved, does that change anything? As far as I can see, that would only prove that Genesis is an allegory. The existence of evolution doesn't solve the "first cause" problem for the universe, and those who believe in God would simply have to accept that God used evolution to create biological life. But so what? What kind of victory is that for Nogoddism? I guess you could run around yelling, "I was right! I was right!" However, I suspect that the majority of the world would still believe in a God. I certainly would.

You see, most of mankind is looking for meaning in their lives; they are not looking for an equation that explains how the universe operates. They want to understand why there is good and evil, and why these forces continually oppose each other. They want to know how a universe could at at one point time not exist, but then came into existence through its own design and power. And they want to understand why they exist: is there a reason and a purpose for human existence? And even if these questions have no answer (a premise I do not accept), most people would rather search for answers, than just accept the premise that their lives are the result of blind chance.

So Nogodders can preach all day, but they won't change a believer's mind: simply because Nogodders are substituting love, hope and faith for obscure mathematical theories that help no one through the difficulties of human life. Sure, Nogodders will say humanity has chosen fairly tales over truth. However, believers will say Nogodders have exchanged scientific theories for spiritual realities which cannot be proven through mathematical formulae.

Nongodders believe they are right. And so do the believers. So we either can accept each others' position and choose to dwell in peace and harmony, or we can choose to raise of the hand of condemnation and warfare. This is reality.

I personally have talked to God face to face. Of course, some Nogodders will say I'm mentally I'll or was suffering from some temporary insanity. However, I will respond that my conversation with God was the most peaceful, relevant, and real event of my entire life. Nogodders can argue with me all day, every day; but they will never change my mind: I was there; it happened; and they weren't there to argue otherwise.

There are dimensions of existence beyond our physical universe (as science has proven). Perhaps some people need to perform some soul searching and ask themselves why they must continually fight against this scientific truth...

Dave

[Nozzferrahhtoo]

Originally Posted by r0339

And I am not alone.

Stats on how many people agree with you are irrelevant and do little more than aid one in self masturbatory congratulation on feeling they are right. A proposition is either true... or it is false. The truth of the proposition does not increase in proportion to the number of people subscribing to it. The question you should be asking is whether or not there is any reason whatsoever to think there is a god or not. The answer to that question is entirely independent from the number of people who think the answer is yes. There either is reasons to think there is a god, or there is not, regardless of whether 1, 1000 or 1 billion people say there is.

Originally Posted by r0339

So what would you Nogodders have me conclude? That over 80% of humanity is insane and believes in fairy tales?

Your conclusions are your own to reach, not ours to dictate to you. However my own position and that of all the atheists I have worked with is not what you write here. One does not need to be insane to be deluded and/or wrong. Again the % of people thinking there is a god is irrelevant. The question you should be asking is whether there any reason for YOU to think the proposition is true. Thus far in 18+ years of asking for any arguments, evidence, data or reasons to think there is a god however no one has given me even an iota of a scrap of a reason to think the answer is yes or lend the idea even a modicum of credence. Simply harping on about "I think there is and 80% of people agree with me" is an "argumentum ad populum" fallacy.

In fact it would seem the entirety of your post is argumentum ad populum and not a single thing else.

Originally Posted by r0339

You see, most of mankind is looking for meaning in their lives

And here is the answer to your question as to why 80% think there is a god despite the lack of any substantiation for the claim. They WANT to think there is one. And that desire is strong enough to allow them to ignore the pesky and incontinent fact that their purported beliefs are not just slightly, but ENTIRELY, unfounded and unsubstantiated.

You are entirely correct. Humans WANT a meaning to life. That does not mean there is one however. They WANT a narrative by which to make sense of existence. That does not mean the one they make up is correct or even credible.

We are an emotional species and arguments from emotion appear to trump the intellect and dismiss the requirement for evidence, argument, data or reasoning at every turn. You pointlessly point out that if evolution was proven 100% to the common lay man that they would still think there is a god. I would go one further than that. If we magically somehow proved 100% that there is no god.... I rather expect quite a number of people would continue believing in one all the same. All because they want a reason for existence and a narrative for their lives.... despite the fact there is no reason to think there is one or that one is even required.

Originally Posted by r0339

So Nogodders can preach all day, but they won't change a believer's mind

Says you. I however have been witness to many peoples minds being changed, in both directions. So you are quite simply, and basically, wrong in this declaration.

Originally Posted by r0339

I personally have talked to God face to face. Of course, some Nogodders will say I'm mentally I'll or was suffering from some temporary insanity.

I would not even bet on "temporary", Dave. Hallucination can be transient yes, but it can also be a symptom of underlying conditions that are more serious and/or long term. I would certainly recommend to you to seek the advice of 1 or more medical professionals if such experiences continue. I am not concluding anything about your state of mind in this either before you get all insulted and defensive. I merely recommend it as a course of prudence that if you are seeing things of this sort to ensure you have explored every medical avenue to ensure your own safety and well being.

[Heathen Hammer]

Doing the latter is not important so long as the former is done.

The number of people who believe something does not in any way make it true. [Appeal to numbers fallacy]