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I keep reading statements like, "Atheism makes a lot more sense to me than does religion!"
Or, "Everything can be explained scientifically."
It's as if some can't wrap their minds around both science AND spirituality.
Our immune system's function is to identify anything foreign to the body & ATTACK! Sometimes, it can even misinterpret it's own body as foreign & attack, as in auto-immune disorders. Similarly, atheism identifies anything not understood & denies. Yet denying doesn't verify something doesn't exist, which is just unknown. We have an instinctive need to identify things - partly to distinguish safety from threats & partly because we can only think about so much. Therefore, we try to get the best brief picture we can, slap a conclusion on it & move on. Some energy or spirituality (including that mysterious dark energy that composes 95% of the universe) - is beyond understanding. We can't see it all. We can't explain what's so far beyond our universe, let alone many serendipity events in our own universe. Yet, for peace of mind, we pretend we understand & can explain. Some use science, others religion, to help them feel like it's all figured out - when really, we're all clueless!
One of the largest organisms on earth is the Aspen tree, which is made up of identical trees (actually- stems) connected by the same root system. Sitting under one part of an Aspen, we may think that the part we see is separate, & think we've properly identified it, when it's only a stem of an expansive tree! Jumping to conclusions limits imagination & limits finding truth through more perspectives.
Similarly, sitting under a tree's hanging branches & leaves, one can't see the entire tree - how big it is - except by imagining it.
So much we don't know & can only imagine. We tend to be most creative & imaginative when we're relaxed & feeling good, which is also when we relate most spiritually. Ever notice you can sing higher notes when relaxed than when nervous? IMO, atheism is denial, which is a form of nervous attack. Relax & open your mind! There's much more than meets the eye or ear! ha!
IMO, Our main goal is to be happy.
Happiness depends on a good mix of both scientific logic & imaginative spirituality.
For God's sake, don't believe in the traditional fear & shame-based God, but believe in something - that much cannot be known except by it's influence in the form of belief, including significant energy that makes up us all!
Last edited by SuperSoul; 06-26-2011 at 08:53 AM..
Similarly, atheism identifies anything not understood & denies.
False. When I as an atheist encounter something not, yet, understood by science, I simply confess that I don't know the answer. That is not denying anything. The only thing that you might think I am "denying" is your explanation for that which is not yet understood that isn't really a fully formed explanation to begin with. And for what it is worth, I am open to considering explanations, but I also allow myself to evaluate their likelihood.
By the way, atheism doesn't "identify"; and atheism doesn't "deny". People can identify, and people can deny, but atheism is not a person, so don't personify it, because it is going beyond what atheism is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSoul
Yet denying doesn't verify something doesn't exist, which is just unknown.
Duhh. Do you not think we don't know that? I am beginning to think you don't understand atheists nearly as well as you think you do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSoul
Yet, for peace of mind, we pretend we understand & can explain. Some use science, others religion, to help them feel like it's all figured out - when really, we're all clueless!
I don't pretend to understand or can explain what we don't understand or are able to explain. I am not afraid to acknowledge ignorance. I try to avoid jumping to conclusions. I find far too many people jump to conclusions, such as God did it, or there is some spiritual force that did it. That is jumping to conclusions; that is pretending you know something you don't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSoul
Jumping to conclusions limits imagination & limits finding truth through more perspectives.
Similarly, sitting under a tree's hanging branches & leaves, one can't see the entire tree - how big it is - except by imagining it.
How did we learn that the aspen organism sprouts many trees? Through scientific observation.
Look, don't think imagination is the sole property of the realm of spirituality. Imagination is used by engineers to design solutions to mechanical problems. Imagination is used by scientific theorists to first come up with a model of why things might be the way they are. The difference is, the scientists then takes that imagined model/hypothesis and tests it to see if it holds up. He doesn't just assume his imagined model is correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSoul
IMO, atheism is denial, which is a form of nervous attack. Relax & open your mind! There's much more than meets the eye!
Wrong again. Atheism is not a nervous attack. We know that there is a lot more to discover, that we do not currently understand and we are looking for those explanations. We use our imagination to generate ideas, and then reason and empirical evidence to trim back the ideas that don't stand up to scrutiny. If one does not doing the trimming process, one could be left to believe all manner of things that bear no resemblance to reality. Imagination and disciplined evaluation go hand in hand. Imagination without disciplined evaluation yields an incoherent, incomprehensible mess.
How do you think great composers compose their music? Part is by using their imagination, but part is in training their minds in musical discipline to screen out off-pitch notes and dissonant chords.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSoul
Happiness depends on a good mix of both scientific logic & imaginative spirituality.
That is your opinion. Be open-minded enough, and tolerant enough, to realize that people can be immensely happy and have rewarding lives without what you call spirituality. Personally, I continue to enjoy the experiences I used to think were spiritual, but I now believe are not (transcendence, awe, elevation, peace, serenity, connectedness, flow, etc). I still experience them all the time as an atheist and without the belief that they are supernatural in origin. But, there are many atheists who are happy and who don't experience those things and that is alright.
Hueffenhardt,
Thanks for your response.
I realize I was making generalization about the general term atheism.
Let's define atheism: The theory or belief that God does not exist.
God can be defined many ways, but generally, God represents unseen creative energy.
You seem to have taken my post personally by how you responded defensively.
Maybe I could've rephrased it so it didn't come across that way. I apologize.
My intent was not to tick you off, but to help you & others realize it's ok to admit we don't know, & that there is power in belief, whether the we know if the belief is parly true or not at all true.
IE: when you think about something that makes you angry, your heart starts beating, your adrenalen starts pumping, so even if whatever made you angry was illusional, your belief in it still had influence.
I agree, Super. We should all look at the beautiful world around us and be thankful we are alive to enjoy it.
In my case, the thought of their being a supreme being who controls the universe has never crossed my mind. I do not understand how the universe works, but I have learned to accept it and enjoy it.
I completely disagree that "generally, God represents unseen creative energy." The predominant world religions are Christianity, Islam, and Hinduism (see wiki article for source). Only a few sects in each religion would accept your definition. Yours is a liberal definition of "god". It's much more palatable to me, though I still believe it's false, than any sort of being who interferes on behalf of his/her fear-quaking subjects.
It's interesting that the OP requests that atheists "Relax & open your mind!", yet she does not extend the same courtesy to us - instead asserting that "atheism is denial, which is a form of nervous attack". I'm not sure why she expected atheists not to take her post personally, since we are wound up tight with closed minds and nervous disorders.
SuperSoul, if you genuinely wished to engage with atheists without the antagonism and condescension, you not "could've" but should have rephrased your entire OP.
I agree, Super. We should all look at the beautiful world around us and be thankful we are alive to enjoy it.
In my case, the thought of their being a supreme being who controls the universe has never crossed my mind. I do not understand how the universe works, but I have learned to accept it and enjoy it.
Thanks, Hiker. I like your positivity - it's inspiring.
I try to take a similar approach.
It's humbling, really, to realize so much we don't know.
For a while, I believed Christian beliefs, but then realized it just didnt make sense, yet I can see how people resonate with a person over an unseen energy or the unknown.
Peppermint,
Who said anything about other religions?
Well, I did write,
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSoul
IMO, Our main goal is to be happy.
Happiness depends on a good mix of both scientific logic & imaginative spirituality.
For God's sake, don't believe in the traditional fear & shame-based God, but believe in something - that much cannot be known except by it's influence in the form of belief, including significant energy that makes up us all!
Still, on this forum of many different oppinions, it's good to keep in mind that when someone is writing, it's coming from them, & it's their perspective (IMO).
You mentioned being upset with calling atheism denial... yet what do you expect? - "Denial" is part of the definition of atheism... "The theory or belief that Goddoes not exist."
Last edited by SuperSoul; 06-26-2011 at 03:00 PM..
To deny is to not admit to something that is.
We can't deny the existence of something that isn't.
I suppose a slightly different definition can be found that allows for the way you put it but this way is why I would object to what you say
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don't believe in the traditional fear & shame-based God, but believe in something - that much cannot be known except by it's influence in the form of belief, including significant energy that makes up us all!
