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You, as in your tribe you mean. Your constitution did not cover the entire continent of native people.
You're quite correct in that, but the Iroquois confederacy was not the only one that had a constitution, there were other tribes that banded together to form confederacy's very similar to the Iroquois and these confederacy's were formed to provide peace and protection for its members and these confederacy's were in existence long before Europeans came to this land. So you see we had our forms of government that in many cases have been copied by the Founding Fathers of the United States. One big difference you may note between my culture and that of the European, is that we regarded women very highly, women held important positions within council's.
GldnRule: Well, now the velvet glove is publicly off of the mailed fist, and I'm sorry to see you as the spokesperson for it. So much for the "turn the other cheek" New Testament philosophy, eh? Will it be back to the medieval period for us. or just 1692 Salem? The Forces of Reaktion have spoken.
I'm surprised at your post catman.
I'm not the "mailed fist", nor do I sanction it in any way...and you KNOW that.
MOF, I'm trying to protect myself from it, as I stand in the middle of the crossfire. I've been in the porn business for 27 years, remember?
I'm trying to put the message forth---If you don't want that "mailed fist" to be thrown in your direction...quit instigating it to happen. Because if you keep "pushing"...it's inevitable that it will. Just look at the little bit of human history you mentioned...and I don't believe people have changed in that regard.
When did the religious ever follow their "turn the other cheek" ideal?
The "shove back" may be more legal than violent (still a big dose of violence though...as we all know) this time...but it WILL happen if things keep going the way they are.
I'm not the "mailed fist", nor do I sanction it in any way...and you KNOW that.
MOF, I'm trying to protect myself from it, as I stand in the middle of the crossfire. I've been in the porn business for 27 years, remember?
I'm trying to put the message forth---If you don't want that "mailed fist" to be thrown in your direction...quit instigating it to happen. Because if you keep "pushing"...it's inevitable that it will. Just look at the little bit of human history you mentioned...and I don't believe people have changed in that regard.
When did the religious ever follow their "turn the other cheek" ideal?
The "shove back" may be more legal than violent (still a big dose of violence though...as we all know) this time...but it WILL happen if things keep going the way they are.
GldnRule, to some degree you're making sense....... It reminds me of the way the indigenous people were treated by the local, state, and Federal governments of this country in stealing their land, and I use this only as a form of reference. The native people did not have the knowledge of the laws of this government and so they were at a disadvantage and consequently were taken advantage of, however, once they had learned the laws of the government and learned also that the treaty's that they had with the government had been violated, they use those laws to try to make things correct and get what was rightfully theirs without the violence. They use those laws against the lawmakers in their own courts and in many cases they won their case.
No worries about that MC. We had our own constitution long before the United States had its constitution and it is still in affect to this day and if you get a chance you may want to read it, read number 99, under Religious Ceremonies Protected. Constitution of the Iroquois NationsGldnRule is well familiar with it....
The Iroquois sound like they had a system very similar to the island nation of Palau, where I lived for a few years.
It was a matralinial society, and even though the Chief was male the women could kick him out if he wasn't doing a good job. (There, the women picked the chief.)
Inheretence ran through the women's blood line, which may have historically been related to the problem of proving paternity. In Palau, the father didn't necessarily take care of his biological children. Instead, man were expected to take care of their sister's children. (That may not be the same as with the Iroquois.)
GldnRule, to some degree you're making sense....... It reminds me of the way the indigenous people were treated by the local, state, and Federal governments of this country in stealing their land, and I use this only as a form of reference. The native people did not have the knowledge of the laws of this government and so they were at a disadvantage and consequently were taken advantage of, however, once they had learned the laws of the government and learned also that the treaty's that they had with the government had been violated, they use those laws to try to make things correct and get what was rightfully theirs without the violence. They use those laws against the lawmakers in their own courts and in many cases they won their case.
In most of the cases, the land was bought willingly. For example, after Franklin concluded the Lousiana purchase, he had to go back and buy the land from the tribes that lived there. Some tribes sold their land, some chose not to, and they remained on their land. EditNotably except for the Jackson years, which were probably the worst of times from one of our worst presidents. In general, the later years were worse than the earlier... but I digress)
The real tragedy the befell the indiginious people was their lack of immunity to eurpean diseases, which as I'm sure you know caused a great deal of death.
Last edited by Boxcar Overkill; 09-08-2011 at 02:09 PM..
Ahh, the myth of the Noble Savage still lives, I see. Just fyi, native Americans had slaves, they murdered each other, they went to war for good and bad reasons, they raped and kidnapped, and they were human beings with human reactions, instincts, and motivations just like the rest of us. Hardly paragons of virtue that you hold them to be.
Do I think they deserved what happened to them? No. But I don't think the Chinese deserved to be enslaved to build the railways either, and I don't think the Irish deserved indentured servitude, and I don't think black people deserved to be captured by their own neighboring tribes and sold to slavers, either.
It's human nature that the strong and/or advanced culture tends to push out the primitive, weak culture. When this happens, the weak either adapt to survive, or they suffer. Native Americans currently have a lot of opportunity from this country because of their heritage that a non-native American child doesn't have. If they don't take advantage of those opportunities, how am I to blame? How are any of us to blame? There is nobody alive left to blame.
All societies have internal issues/problems.
Just because I say that the reality of human nature will result in something happening, doesn't mean that it's cool that is the way things go down.
Man's proclivity to be selfish and seek power and/or possessions at the exploitation of his fellow man, may be what's real...I'm as hip to that as anyone, MOF it's my main point...but I never said it SHOULD be that way.
The Native People in this country did nothing to provoke what happened to them...and look what happened.
Now...don't you think provoking the stronger culture will get that for you all that much more surely?
You can tell the "non-believers" to "either adapt to survive, or suffer", when the "stronger culture" follows their "human nature"...and decides they've had enough and takes action to "push out" the "weak".
Black integration into the society was "RIGHT"...and they won that battle...even though at the time they weren't part of the "MIGHT".
I said that happens sometimes.
You have to get "MIGHT" on your side...or get lucky.
It wasn’t might and it wasn’t luck. It was forcing the south to obey the law.
And if atheist can show that the law is in there favor than that will win out.
But in all cases a ruckus had to be started first for the courts to even take a look.
Last edited by Aeroman; 09-08-2011 at 02:35 PM..
Reason: And maybe god will be taken out of the pledge and off the coins.
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..... It reminds me of the way the indigenous people were treated by the local, state, and Federal governments of this country in stealing their land, and I use this only as a form of reference. The native people did not have the knowledge of the laws of this government and so they were at a disadvantage and consequently were taken advantage of, however, once they had learned the laws of the government and learned also that the treaty's that they had with the government had been violated, they use those laws to try to make things correct and get what was rightfully theirs without the violence. They use those laws against the lawmakers in their own courts and in many cases they won their case.
Notably except for the Jackson years, which were probably the worst of times from one of our worst presidents. In general, the later years were worse than the earlier... but I digress)
