Why does the Bible permit slavery? (Jews, Lord, behavior, exist)
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Leviticus 25:44-46 "Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids. Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession. And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever:but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour."
Notice that a slave trade never really developed as it did between America and Africa in the 1600's. Yes, there was slavery among Israel and their enemies. But it was nothing that was uncommon to the time or culture.
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Oh, and while there were Christians who were abolitionists, I am quite sure many of them were influenced from European writings of the Enlightenment, much of which regarded the bible as non-divine. The evil of slavery is self-evident. The bible could have said it was it was fine on each page and it STILL would be a great evil.
Baloney. The form of slavery in existence at the time was not the same thing. You're reading your modern day feelings and morals into a previous culture.
Notice that a slave trade never really developed as it did between America and Africa in the 1600's. Yes, there was slavery among Israel and their enemies. But it was nothing that was uncommon to the time or culture.
I NEVER said it was uncommon and you were the one trying to rationalize it. I KNOW that it was and I know that it was a way of life just 200 years ago on this of the world. I am a black man and I am reading a book on slavery at the moment so you're not telling me something I don't know.
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Baloney. The form of slavery in existence at the time was not the same thing. You're reading your modern day feelings and morals into a previous culture.
I think you're missing something here. Even in your very bible, the story of the Exodus and the horrors of slave life for the ancient Israelites is vivid (albeit, the story is probably well exaggerated, if even true). Do you REALLY think that ancient men were "nice" when it came to their captives of war who were made slaves? Do you think they treated them better or more fairly that a white European to a black African in 1705??? Again, the bible differentiates between the treatment of an Israelite "slave" and a MADE slave who ended up in his lot because of war and kidnappings.
To be fair, we are not sure if the Israelites followed these commands regarding enemy nations, as we do not have any detailed stories in the bible of the everyday life of such slaves (if they existed), but on paper (the bible), there were detailed rules on how [foreign] slaves were to be had and how they were to be viewed and they were to be possessions and enslaved forever.
Last edited by InsaneInDaMembrane; 11-17-2011 at 10:47 AM..
First, one should have at least a minimal understanding of what 'slavery' meant in those days. (Hint: it wasn't the same thing as what went on in the South before the Civil War).
If you had such an understanding, you wouldn't have started this thread.
But they were bought, and they were owned by other people, and you could beat them. And the bible clearly says this came from God.
Exodus 20:22 And the LORD said unto Moses, Thus thou shalt say unto the children of Israel, Ye have seen that I have talked with you from heaven.
... 21:2 If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing.
... 21:20 And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. 21:21 Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.
I NEVER said it was uncommon and you were the one trying to rationalize it. I KNOW that it was and I know that it was a way of life just 200 years ago on this of the world. I am a black man and I am reading a book on slavery at the moment so you're not telling me something I don't know.
My point is that the regulation of slavery in the nation of Israel meant that the slaves got treated much much better than the ones of surrounding nations. Again...even the form of slavery was different than 18th Century America.
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I think you're missing something here. Even in your very bible, the story of the Exodus and the horrors of slave life for the ancient Israelites is vivid (albeit, the story is probably well exaggerated, if even true). Do you REALLY think that ancient men were "nice" when it came to their captives of war who were made slaves? Do you think they treated them better or more fairly that a white European to a black African in 1705??? Again, the bible differentiates between the treatment of an Israelite "slave" and a MADE slave who ended up in his lot because of war and kidnappings.
I think Israel treated its slaves much better as a result of the OT laws surrounding the treatment of them.
I NEVER said it was uncommon and you were the one trying to rationalize it. I KNOW that it was and I know that it was a way of life just 200 years ago on this of the world. I am a black man and I am reading a book on slavery at the moment so you're not telling me something I don't know.
I think you're missing something here. Even in your very bible, the story of the Exodus and the horrors of slave life for the ancient Israelites is vivid (albeit, the story is probably well exaggerated, if even true). Do you REALLY think that ancient men were "nice" when it came to their captives of war who were made slaves? Do you think they treated them better or more fairly that a white European to a black African in 1705??? Again, the bible differentiates between the treatment of an Israelite "slave" and a MADE slave who ended up in his lot because of war and kidnappings.
To be fair, we are not sure if the Israelites followed these commands regarding enemy nations, as we do not have any detailed stories in the bible of the everyday life of such slaves (if they existed), but on paper (the bible), there were detailed rules on how [foreign] slaves were to be had and how they were to be viewed and they were to be possessions and enslaved forever.
This being said I realize that slavery existed long BEFORE there was a bible. I realize that the Israelites did not have a monopoly on the institution nor were they unique in their understanding of it. Whether there was/is a bible or not, people will always try to subdue others to do their bidding. The bible reflects its time and culture. It is NOT the 'word of god' by ANY stretch. Unfortunately, there are those who used and uses it contents, meant for another time, to apply it to our world and THAT was the danger 300 years ago when people looked for some divine mandate for engaging in it and continuing it and they found it whether or not they misinterpreted the passages. The so-called 'word of god' did NOT put any explicit condemnation on the practice. In fact, it encouraged it complete with rules and regulation so that same book cannot be the moral authority on anything when it cannot even give a whimper about condemning the institution as evil, no matter how mild some folks want to believe it was. This assuming it was a book "inspired" or ultimately written by, a good and loving god.
My point is that the regulation of slavery in the nation of Israel meant that the slaves got treated much much better than the ones of surrounding nations. Again...even the form of slavery was different than 18th Century America.
Different how? Please tell me how it was different?
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I think Israel treated its slaves much better as a result of the OT laws surrounding the treatment of them.
You have proof that they did? Where does it say they (the foreign slaves) were to be treated better. Just the fact that they were called possessions indicates trouble.
This is said from God directly to Moses.
So if slavery was wrong in Gods view he would have told Moses at this time, but he did not.
He told him to tell the Israelites this.
NIV Exodus 21-20,21
“Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.“
That means you could beat your slave till his or hers back is raw and bleeding and just wrap them up and send them back in the field. A human will recover from those injuries whether they are laboring or not.
This is said from God directly to Moses.
So if slavery was wrong in Gods view he would have told Moses at this time, but he did not.
He told him to tell the Israelites this.
NIV Exodus 21-20,21
“Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.“
That means you could beat your slave till his or hers back is raw and bleeding and just wrap them up and send them back in the field. A human will recover from those injuries whether they are laboring or not.
God does allow slavery.
And the nations around Israel had no such commands.
Not sure what that has to do with the OP.
The OP seems to be speaking of the Israelite and Christian god.
And I've answered the OP's questions. He allowed it because it was a cultural thing that was already being done, but then he put restrictions on it and regulated the treatment of slaves. Also, taking people as slaves could be seen as more merciful than killing them.
Moderator cut: off topic
Last edited by Miss Blue; 11-17-2011 at 08:47 PM..
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