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There is OVER 100 bible verses that completely state that JESUS would return in the lifetime of his apostles. JESUS myth is unfortunately a fraud everyone wants to believe. I did for about 20 years and I am glad that is over.There is an end time but it has nothing to do with a man named Jesus.
Well your talking to someone who has been in the presence of the Lord, and I can assure you, Jesus Christ is no myth. I have had real encounters with Him, and He is the real God. And He will return as He said He would.
And when the Bible tells us that the Jews would return to Israel and Jerusalem in the latter days, the Bible spoke the truth. And when the Bible tells us the Jerusalems East Gate would have a Porch Gate added to it, and the Porch Gate would be sealed, and all attempts to break through would fail. Again, the Bible spoke the truth. I'm sorry for your misconception of the Scriptures, yet the prophecies are happening as the Bible has stated. It is your misunderstanding that has led you in the wrong direction.
Well Second Peter 3 tells us that people will be saying in the last days. Where is his promise or his coming? For since the time that the fathers slep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.
That kind of sounds like you ShepsMom.
The Bible tells us that the generation that sees Israels rebirth as a nation will not pass away until all things be fulfilled. And that would include the coming of Jesus Christ.
Well, i don't know who Second Peter 3 is, and i really don't care. What fun it is to sit and wait!
I'd like to know what prophesies have been fulfilled... Care to name some?
I mean, when you wait thousands of years, anything can happen.
If i say "I preditc there is a great storm coming.....", i bet it will come soon or later in the next xxx years. Right??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34
Gods not impressed with religious men that are considered important by the standards of this world. That's why so many Godly men of the Bible were often not considered. Many claim to base their beliefs on the Bible. Yet unless there is order to their claims, those beliefs will fall into question. And often their beliefs have been proven wrong after the test of time. And they were proven wrong no matter how important the world considered such men. It's not a question of being smarter, it is more a question of what God has given to you.
Or may be, those godly men were "godly" for the only purpose to continue brainwashing and control of people. How convenient is that? Do they really believe in God, or do they just played all of you, and still do till this day.
Well your talking to someone who has been in the presence of the Lord, and I can assure you, Jesus Christ is no myth. I have had real encounters with Him, and He is the real God. And He will return as He said He would.
And when the Bible tells us that the Jews would return to Israel and Jerusalem in the latter days, the Bible spoke the truth. And when the Bible tells us the Jerusalems East Gate would have a Porch Gate added to it, and the Porch Gate would be sealed, and all attempts to break through would fail. Again, the Bible spoke the truth. I'm sorry for your misconception of the Scriptures, yet the prophecies are happening as the Bible has stated. It is your misunderstanding that has led you in the wrong direction.
I am glad that you believe that you were in the presence of the lord. Many cultures and religions believe in the ability to see great wonders what makes yours so different or even correct. American Indians try to contact many different beings.
Secondly, What do the Jews returning to Israel have to do with Jesus? Nothing, you were taught to associate some Old Testament scriptures with the return of Jesus even though they are never mention by his apostles that they will be the sign that Jesus returns. You say that the bible is true and you are correct. You as a Christian can pick and chose what verses that are important to prove your false myth. It has been taught that way for 2000 years so they have had a lot of practice to deceive people that Jesus is god or messiah or the savior. I can prove the point. Jesus makes it clear to his apostles that he will return in their lifetime. That is how it is written but a true Christian will say that he really meant to say that he will come back soon and we cannot define soon because man does not know the time or the hour. Well there are over a 100 verse and I will show you that clearly talk in present time.
Why do I call Jesus a myth because there is no historical evidence of his life out side the bible. Not one of the 4 gospels and Paul can keep their story straight of what happened. Because his life is a folklore or a fable just like Santa Claus and jack in the bean stock. It was meant to be told to the helpless poor people to bring them hope. Most people that are truly well educated have a hard time believing in Santa Claus and I bet they have a hard time accepting that a man that is flesh and bones is GOD. Reason why is just like you said the bible is true. You are correct the Old Testament is true you need to leave out the Greek mythological New Testament to make the bible be true. The Old Testament if you truly understand the meaning it is a powerful book that explains a lot but I think it is a book with some powerful moral of the story. Most Christian like the religion cause it is easy and there is not much thought involved (remember works was removed due to Paul said so.)
Well, i don't know who Second Peter 3 is, and i really don't care. What fun it is to sit and wait!
I'd like to know what prophesies have been fulfilled... Care to name some?
I mean, when you wait thousands of years, anything can happen.
If i say "I preditc there is a great storm coming.....", i bet it will come soon or later in the next xxx years. Right??
Or may be, those godly men were "godly" for the only purpose to continue brainwashing and control of people. How convenient is that? Do they really believe in God, or do they just played all of you, and still do till this day.
In the Bible in the Book of Ezekiel chapters 36,37,38,and 39, God tells us that in the Latter days, or near the end of time, the Jewish people would return to the land of Israel. And they would do this after they were scattered from a world wide exile. They would first return to southern Israel which they did (1948), and second, they would retake Jerusalem by force which they did in(1967). The Bible tells us, that their return would anger a number of nations and would create a great deal of ill will around the world. Also, the Bible states that near the end a number of nations would try to use their combinded military to destroy Israel, and retake Jerusalem. This event I believe will occur in the future, but it will involove Russia and a number of Islamic nations.
The Bible also tells us, that Jerusalems East Gate would have a Porch Gate built onto it, and that Gate would be sealed up, and all attempts to break through it would fail. This is also the case. Jerusalems orginal East Gate was buried long ago, many years latter a new Gate was built right on top of the Old Gate, and that Gate was sealed up. Moslems found out about the prophecy and tried twice to break through to make the Bible null and void. Yet as the prophecy stated, all attempts would fail. According to the Bible, Jerusalems East Gate will remain sealed until the Prince to come will open it. What is most intresting about the East Gate Prophecy, is that it's fulfillment has come about by non believers in the Bible. So one can't point to the religious as being the one's trying to push a fraud. The fact is, most of these prophecies are coming about because of reasons outside of religious motivation. Most Jewish people don't follow the prophecies as the Christians do, yet it is the Jewish people that find themselves in the middle of them. According to the Bible, the generation that sees the rebirth of Israel, will also see the return of Jesus Christ. And the sealed East Gate can only be opened by Him alone.
Another prophecy states, that at this time the Jewish people will rebuild their Temple on Mt. Moriah in Jerusalem. It is no coincidence that plans for such a Temple have already been drawn up, and temple priest are already being trained for the positions. The events that are taking place are much bigger than any church, or church leader. These events were spoken of thousands of years ago, and were given in the Bible as signs to watch for shortly before Christ would return. There are a number of events that will tie into these prophecies that are spoken of in the Bible.
I am glad that you believe that you were in the presence of the lord. Many cultures and religions believe in the ability to see great wonders what makes yours so different or even correct. American Indians try to contact many different beings.
Secondly, What do the Jews returning to Israel have to do with Jesus? Nothing, you were taught to associate some Old Testament scriptures with the return of Jesus even though they are never mention by his apostles that they will be the sign that Jesus returns. You say that the bible is true and you are correct. You as a Christian can pick and chose what verses that are important to prove your false myth. It has been taught that way for 2000 years so they have had a lot of practice to deceive people that Jesus is god or messiah or the savior. I can prove the point. Jesus makes it clear to his apostles that he will return in their lifetime. That is how it is written but a true Christian will say that he really meant to say that he will come back soon and we cannot define soon because man does not know the time or the hour. Well there are over a 100 verse and I will show you that clearly talk in present time.
Why do I call Jesus a myth because there is no historical evidence of his life out side the bible. Not one of the 4 gospels and Paul can keep their story straight of what happened. Because his life is a folklore or a fable just like Santa Claus and jack in the bean stock. It was meant to be told to the helpless poor people to bring them hope. Most people that are truly well educated have a hard time believing in Santa Claus and I bet they have a hard time accepting that a man that is flesh and bones is GOD. Reason why is just like you said the bible is true. You are correct the Old Testament is true you need to leave out the Greek mythological New Testament to make the bible be true. The Old Testament if you truly understand the meaning it is a powerful book that explains a lot but I think it is a book with some powerful moral of the story. Most Christian like the religion cause it is easy and there is not much thought involved (remember works was removed due to Paul said so.)
Jesus said all these things would happen when the fig tree first shoots forth it branches. The fig tree has always represented the nation of Israel. The New Testament said that when Jerusalem has passed from the time of the gentiles that would be the time of Christ coming. Israel became a nation in 1948, the time of the gentiles has now passed. Jesus still cannot return because there are still other prophecies that have not been fulfilled. The Jews must build their third Temple on Mt. Moriah in Jerusalem as the Bible states. Shortly before Christ died on the cross he told his followers that the second temple would be destroyed. The New Testament tells us that a third temple would be built, and shortly after that Christ would return. You can only believe that Jesus was speaking of his generation, if you are willing to ignore everything else Jesus and the new Testament is telling you.
In the Bible in the Book of Ezekiel chapters 36,37,38,and 39, God tells us that in the Latter days, or near the end of time, the Jewish people would return to the land of Israel. And they would do this after they were scattered from a world wide exile. They would first return to southern Israel which they did (1948), and second, they would retake Jerusalem by force which they did in(1967). The Bible tells us, that their return would anger a number of nations and would create a great deal of ill will around the world. Also, the Bible states that near the end a number of nations would try to use their combinded military to destroy Israel, and retake Jerusalem. This event I believe will occur in the future, but it will involove Russia and a number of Islamic nations.
The Bible also tells us, that Jerusalems East Gate would have a Porch Gate built onto it, and that Gate would be sealed up, and all attempts to break through it would fail. This is also the case. Jerusalems orginal East Gate was buried long ago, many years latter a new Gate was built right on top of the Old Gate, and that Gate was sealed up. Moslems found out about the prophecy and tried twice to break through to make the Bible null and void. Yet as the prophecy stated, all attempts would fail. According to the Bible, Jerusalems East Gate will remain sealed until the Prince to come will open it. What is most intresting about the East Gate Prophecy, is that it's fulfillment has come about by non believers in the Bible. So one can't point to the religious as being the one's trying to push a fraud. The fact is, most of these prophecies are coming about because of reasons outside of religious motivation. Most Jewish people don't follow the prophecies as the Christians do, yet it is the Jewish people that find themselves in the middle of them. According to the Bible, the generation that sees the rebirth of Israel, will also see the return of Jesus Christ. And the sealed East Gate can only be opened by Him alone.
Another prophecy states, that at this time the Jewish people will rebuild their Temple on Mt. Moriah in Jerusalem. It is no coincidence that plans for such a Temple have already been drawn up, and temple priest are already being trained for the positions. The events that are taking place are much bigger than any church, or church leader. These events were spoken of thousands of years ago, and were given in the Bible as signs to watch for shortly before Christ would return. There are a number of events that will tie into these prophecies that are spoken of in the Bible.
It also said that Israel would be defenseless. Now if having nuclear weapons is defenseless, then the U.S. is pretty defenseless, too.
This seems to be a pretty comprehensive look at those prophesies:
Jesus said all these things would happen when the fig tree first shoots forth it branches. The fig tree has always represented the nation of Israel. The New Testament said that when Jerusalem has passed from the time of the gentiles that would be the time of Christ coming. Israel became a nation in 1948, the time of the gentiles has now passed. Jesus still cannot return because there are still other prophecies that have not been fulfilled. The Jews must build their third Temple on Mt. Moriah in Jerusalem as the Bible states. Shortly before Christ died on the cross he told his followers that the second temple would be destroyed. The New Testament tells us that a third temple would be built, and shortly after that Christ would return. You can only believe that Jesus was speaking of his generation, if you are willing to ignore everything else Jesus and the new Testament is telling you.
The Fig tree may represent the Nation of Israel to the Christians that believe that is what Jesus is implying.
Ask a Jewish person if they represent a fig tree. They will more than likely say no. Unfortunately some of the fig tree metaphors are misunderstood.
Look at Matthew 24 for example.
In the NIV in big bold heading it states:Signs of the End of the Age.
He is then is asked when will they know when he will return. He answers them and then states a parable: verse 32"Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[d]is near, right at the door. 34I tell you the truth, this generation {e} will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
An example of what he is saying to the disciples is this ,if you see rain cloud you more than likely will expect rain. So wear a jacket. So Jesus was giving them warning signs to know what to expect and to get prepared for his return. The warning signs were in verse: 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains.
9"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
So it gives no reference that the Jews must return to the Holy land for Jesus to return.
Well than you may say that Jeremiah and Isaiah both talked about it.
Here is what Jeremiah says:
Jeremiah 23:5
5. Behold, days are coming, says the Lord, when I will set up of David a righteous shoot, and he shall reign a king and prosper, and he shall perform judgment and righteousness in the land.
6. In his days, Judah shall be saved and Israel shall dwell safely, and this is his name that he shall be called, The Lord is our righteousness.
This is talking about a righteous person not all of Israel.
Jeremiah 8
13 I will utterly consume them, saith HaShem; there are no grapes on the vine, nor figs on the fig-tree, and the leaf is faded; and I gave them that which they transgress.
This is talking about the wrath of god and not about the people.
and Isaiah 11:1
1. And a shoot shall spring forth from the stem of Jesse, and a twig shall sprout from his roots.
And a shoot shall spring forth from the stem of Jesse And if you say, ‘Here are consolations for Hezekiah and his people, that they shall not fall into his hands. Now what will be with the exile that was exiled to Halah and Habor, is their hope lost?’ It is not lost! Eventually, the King Messiah shall come and redeem them.
a shoot [This is symbolic of] the royal scepter.
and a twig an expression of a sapling.
and a twig shall sprout from its roots and the entire section, and at the end (v. 11), "And it shall come to pass, that on that day, the Lord shall apply His hand again…[from Assyria]… Hence, [it is obvious] that this prophecy was said to console those exiled to Assyria.
2. And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, a spirit of wisdom and understanding, a spirit of counsel and heroism, a spirit of knowledge and fear of the Lord.
These are talking about lineage but not anything about figs being metaphors of Israel.
But most Christians leave out this :
Deut 20:18-20
18. So that they should not teach you to act according to all their abominations that they have done for their gods, whereby you would sin against the Lord, your God.
19. When you besiege a city for many days to wage war against it to capture it, you shall not destroy its trees by wielding an ax against them, for you may eat from them, but you shall not cut them down. Is the tree of the field a man, to go into the siege before you?
20. However, a tree you know is not a food tree, you may destroy and cut down, and you shall build bulwarks against the city that makes war with you, until its submission.
Hosea 10:
1 Israel was a luxuriant vine, which put forth fruit freely: as his fruit increased, he increased his altars; the more goodly his land was, the more goodly were his pillars.
Hosea 9:10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness, I saw your fathers as the first-ripe in the fig-tree at her first season; but so soon as they came to Baal-peor, they separated themselves unto the shameful thing, and became detestable like that which they loved.
Isaiah 5
7 For the vineyard of HaShem of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah the plant of His delight; and He looked for justice, but behold violence; for righteousness, but behold a cry.
So here are scriptures that the prophets use to describe Israel to grapes and vineyard not figs. To the Jews the Fig tree represents Adams mortal mistake. So they believe the fig tree was the tree of good and bad. Both the grape vine and fig are talked about because they were given in the promise land.
You state that Israel is a state in 1948. Well Do you know that state was created by Zionist. Many Zionist do not believe in judaism. A lot of it is supported by Christian states that want an Israel so they can push Jesus return quicker.
Just remember what GOD said to all his people:
DEUT 4
And now, O Israel, hearken to the statutes and to the judgments which I teach you to do, in order that you may live, and go in and possess the land which the Lord, God of your forefathers, is giving you.
2. Do not add to the word which I command you, nor diminish from it, to observe the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.
9. But beware and watch yourself very well, lest you forget the things that your eyes saw, and lest these things depart from your heart, all the days of your life, and you shall make them known to your children and to your children's children,
10. the day you stood before the Lord your God at Horeb, when the Lord said to me, "Assemble the people for Me, and I will let them hear My words, that they may learn to fear Me all the days that they live on the earth, and that they may teach their children.
11. And you approached and stood at the foot of the mountain, and the mountain burned with fire up to the midst of the heavens, with darkness, a cloud, and opaque darkness.
12. The Lord spoke to you out of the midst of the fire; you heard the sound of the words, but saw no image, just a voice.
13. And He told you His covenant, which He commanded you to do, the Ten Commandments, and He inscribed them on two stone tablets.
14. And the Lord commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and ordinances, so that you should do them in the land to which you are crossing, to possess.
15. And you shall watch yourselves very well, for you did not see any image on the day that the Lord spoke to you at Horeb from the midst of the fire.
16. Lest you become corrupt and make for yourselves a graven image, the representation of any form, the likeness of male or female,
17. the likeness of any beast that is on the earth, the likeness of any winged bird that flies in the heaven,
18. the likeness of anything that crawls on the ground, the likeness of any fish that is in the waters, beneath the earth.
19. And lest you lift up your eyes to heaven, and see the sun, and the moon, and the stars, all the host of heaven, which the Lord your God assigned to all peoples under the entire heaven, and be drawn away to prostrate yourselves before them and worship them.
20. But the Lord took you and brought you out of the iron crucible, out of Egypt, to be a people of His possession, as of this day.
21. And the Lord was angry with me because of you, and He swore that I would not cross the Jordan and that I would not come into the good land the Lord, your God, is giving you as an inheritance.
22. For I will die in this land; I will not cross the Jordan. You, however, will cross, and you will possess this good land.
23. Beware, lest you forget the covenant of the Lord your God, which He made with you, and make for yourselves a graven image, the likeness of anything, which the Lord your God has forbidden you.
The reason Moses did not go to the promise land was because he allowed gods people to worship the golden calf. But God also made it clear that you are not to worship man and that is what EVERY CHRISTIAN DOES. They worship the likeness of man or they call him son of man. God is not a man or the likeness. Remember what verse 15 says that he took no form because he did not want people to make graven images or practice idoltry.
I leave with this :
DEUT 6 : 4. Hear, O Israel: The Lord is our God; the Lord is one.
5. And you shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart and with all your soul, and with all your means.
The prophecies state that Israel in the time of the end would be a very powerful nation, yet they also reveal that they would not be able to stop an invasion from a large number of nations that would gather together to destroy them. And it is at that time, that the Bible tells us God would get involved, and He would personally destroy five sixths of that invadeing army. I might add, America will not be there to defend Israel at this time.
The Fig tree may represent the Nation of Israel to the Christians that believe that is what Jesus is implying.
Ask a Jewish person if they represent a fig tree. They will more than likely say no. Unfortunately some of the fig tree metaphors are misunderstood.
Look at Matthew 24 for example.
In the NIV in big bold heading it states:Signs of the End of the Age.
He is then is asked when will they know when he will return. He answers them and then states a parable: verse 32"Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[d]is near, right at the door. 34I tell you the truth, this generation {e} will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
An example of what he is saying to the disciples is this ,if you see rain cloud you more than likely will expect rain. So wear a jacket. So Jesus was giving them warning signs to know what to expect and to get prepared for his return. The warning signs were in verse: 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains.
9"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
So it gives no reference that the Jews must return to the Holy land for Jesus to return.
Well than you may say that Jeremiah and Isaiah both talked about it.
Here is what Jeremiah says:
Jeremiah 23:5
5. Behold, days are coming, says the Lord, when I will set up of David a righteous shoot, and he shall reign a king and prosper, and he shall perform judgment and righteousness in the land.
6. In his days, Judah shall be saved and Israel shall dwell safely, and this is his name that he shall be called, The Lord is our righteousness.
This is talking about a righteous person not all of Israel.
Jeremiah 8
13 I will utterly consume them, saith HaShem; there are no grapes on the vine, nor figs on the fig-tree, and the leaf is faded; and I gave them that which they transgress.
This is talking about the wrath of god and not about the people.
and Isaiah 11:1
1. And a shoot shall spring forth from the stem of Jesse, and a twig shall sprout from his roots.
And a shoot shall spring forth from the stem of Jesse And if you say, ‘Here are consolations for Hezekiah and his people, that they shall not fall into his hands. Now what will be with the exile that was exiled to Halah and Habor, is their hope lost?’ It is not lost! Eventually, the King Messiah shall come and redeem them. a shoot [This is symbolic of] the royal scepter. and a twig an expression of a sapling. and a twig shall sprout from its roots and the entire section, and at the end (v. 11), "And it shall come to pass, that on that day, the Lord shall apply His hand again…[from Assyria]… Hence, [it is obvious] that this prophecy was said to console those exiled to Assyria.
2. And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, a spirit of wisdom and understanding, a spirit of counsel and heroism, a spirit of knowledge and fear of the Lord.
These are talking about lineage but not anything about figs being metaphors of Israel.
But most Christians leave out this :
Deut 20:18-20
18. So that they should not teach you to act according to all their abominations that they have done for their gods, whereby you would sin against the Lord, your God.
19. When you besiege a city for many days to wage war against it to capture it, you shall not destroy its trees by wielding an ax against them, for you may eat from them, but you shall not cut them down. Is the tree of the field a man, to go into the siege before you?
20. However, a tree you know is not a food tree, you may destroy and cut down, and you shall build bulwarks against the city that makes war with you, until its submission.
Hosea 10:
1 Israel was a luxuriant vine, which put forth fruit freely: as his fruit increased, he increased his altars; the more goodly his land was, the more goodly were his pillars.
Hosea 9:10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness, I saw your fathers as the first-ripe in the fig-tree at her first season; but so soon as they came to Baal-peor, they separated themselves unto the shameful thing, and became detestable like that which they loved.
Isaiah 5
7 For the vineyard of HaShem of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah the plant of His delight; and He looked for justice, but behold violence; for righteousness, but behold a cry.
So here are scriptures that the prophets use to describe Israel to grapes and vineyard not figs. To the Jews the Fig tree represents Adams mortal mistake. So they believe the fig tree was the tree of good and bad. Both the grape vine and fig are talked about because they were given in the promise land.
You state that Israel is a state in 1948. Well Do you know that state was created by Zionist. Many Zionist do not believe in judaism. A lot of it is supported by Christian states that want an Israel so they can push Jesus return quicker.
Just remember what GOD said to all his people:
DEUT 4
And now, O Israel, hearken to the statutes and to the judgments which I teach you to do, in order that you may live, and go in and possess the land which the Lord, God of your forefathers, is giving you.
2. Do not add to the word which I command you, nor diminish from it, to observe the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.
9. But beware and watch yourself very well, lest you forget the things that your eyes saw, and lest these things depart from your heart, all the days of your life, and you shall make them known to your children and to your children's children,
10. the day you stood before the Lord your God at Horeb, when the Lord said to me, "Assemble the people for Me, and I will let them hear My words, that they may learn to fear Me all the days that they live on the earth, and that they may teach their children.
11. And you approached and stood at the foot of the mountain, and the mountain burned with fire up to the midst of the heavens, with darkness, a cloud, and opaque darkness.
12. The Lord spoke to you out of the midst of the fire; you heard the sound of the words, but saw no image, just a voice.
13. And He told you His covenant, which He commanded you to do, the Ten Commandments, and He inscribed them on two stone tablets.
14. And the Lord commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and ordinances, so that you should do them in the land to which you are crossing, to possess.
15. And you shall watch yourselves very well, for you did not see any image on the day that the Lord spoke to you at Horeb from the midst of the fire.
16. Lest you become corrupt and make for yourselves a graven image, the representation of any form, the likeness of male or female,
17. the likeness of any beast that is on the earth, the likeness of any winged bird that flies in the heaven,
18. the likeness of anything that crawls on the ground, the likeness of any fish that is in the waters, beneath the earth.
19. And lest you lift up your eyes to heaven, and see the sun, and the moon, and the stars, all the host of heaven, which the Lord your God assigned to all peoples under the entire heaven, and be drawn away to prostrate yourselves before them and worship them.
20. But the Lord took you and brought you out of the iron crucible, out of Egypt, to be a people of His possession, as of this day.
21. And the Lord was angry with me because of you, and He swore that I would not cross the Jordan and that I would not come into the good land the Lord, your God, is giving you as an inheritance.
22. For I will die in this land; I will not cross the Jordan. You, however, will cross, and you will possess this good land.
23. Beware, lest you forget the covenant of the Lord your God, which He made with you, and make for yourselves a graven image, the likeness of anything, which the Lord your God has forbidden you.
The reason Moses did not go to the promise land was because he allowed gods people to worship the golden calf. But God also made it clear that you are not to worship man and that is what EVERY CHRISTIAN DOES. They worship the likeness of man or they call him son of man. God is not a man or the likeness. Remember what verse 15 says that he took no form because he did not want people to make graven images or practice idoltry.
I leave with this :
DEUT 6 : 4. Hear, O Israel: The Lord is our God; the Lord is one.
5. And you shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart and with all your soul, and with all your means.
AMEN
If I wanted to know what the fig tree represented in the Bible, I would not ask a Jewish person, because the Bible tells us these people did not follow the truth of the Lord. I would go to what the Bible tells us. And in the Old Testament, the Fig tree was identified with the nation of Israel by the prophets. If you want to go to second hand sources for you belief, then do so. If you want the Biblical truth, I would suggest you go to the Bible.
And yes, there will be a third temple built, because the New Testament tells us the daily sacrifice will be taken away from it, and the image of the Beast will be placed in the Temple. And all the people of the earth will be commanded to worship his image.
The Bible is not a Book you can isolate from the other Books of the Bible. Just because it does not mention an event in one of the Books, is not a reason to reject what is clearly being stated in another. You cannot cut and paste the Bible, nor can you use white out. You must take the entire Bible at it's Word.
And I see you mention Jeremiah and Isaiah saying this was not speaking of Israel. Did you forget Ezekiel chapters 36,37,38, and 39. THAT WAS MY MAIN POINT! And I can tell you, it does speak of Israel in the (LATTER DAYS). And God tells us, He is not returning the Jews because they are so good. FAR FROM IT. God tells us they polluted His name where ever they wandered. Did you forget that point?
And the prophecies of the Bible have come about not because of Christians, they have come about because of events that are beyond the control of Christians. Consider the East Gate prophecy. That prophecy has come about by the actions of non Christians. So are you saying that prophecy is being fulfilled because the non Christians want to believe in the Bible. There is a time when you have to rationally look at what is happening here. And you need to understand that these things are not happening because of mans invention, or mans design. There are bigger forces at work here.
The prophecies state that Israel in the time of the end would be a very powerful nation, yet they also reveal that they would not be able to stop an invasion from a large number of nations that would gather together to destroy them. And it is at that time, that the Bible tells us God would get involved, and He would personally destroy five sixths of that invadeing army. I might add, America will not be there to defend Israel at this time.
Who says America wouldn't be there? Why would you assume that even though we have been a staunch ally of Israel for decades? If you think Israel dropping a nuclear weapon in the middle of a Iranian Army battalion wouldn't be effective, then you probably flunked physics.
I read that in the Old Testament, the punishment for not being 100% accurate if you claim to be a prophet is death. Do we need to apply Old Testament standards? lol
Last edited by juj; 08-19-2008 at 07:30 AM..
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