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Is it possible for a modern day scientist to believe in God? Could the life of a scientist be a total waste of time and life? This is a very strange concept to many I'm sure, because scientists have given us some things that are worthy of appreciation, but is it really worth it?
As I think about this I look upon this earth and consider the evidence. Since the explosion of knowledge which began around 100 years ago or so, are we really getting smarter? Can you honestly say that we are advancing as a human race? That's a question that has many different opinions of course, depending on what you call advancement. My opinion is, we are not advancing. Sure, technology is advancing, but we aren't. The one clear fact of evidence is the use of oil and the different ways we chose to get our energy. It couldn't be any more clearer to me, there is no hope for mankind on this planet and all hopes of leaving it will be denied because of our own choices. If we were really advancing then we would be doing things much different.
Just for the sake of the many religions out there, let's just call God an intelligent life force who is responsible for the creation of all that exists. There's either an intelligent personal being like ourselves who's responsible for all this, or not. If not then of course we would obviously need to hurry up and try to figure everything out, for our own sakes. So in that case, scientists would be right on. But what if there is an intelligent designer? Would that being want us to be trying to figure everything out when it comes to science? What if that intelligent personal being who created us in fact speaks to every single one of us every day in ways that are obvious and we chose to overlook these messages because of our lack of understand, and wanting to figure everything out? I'm sure scientist go through this all the time. Newton may have been one to think like this. What if the intelligent designer who is responsible for creating us has an entirely different view on intelligence, and is looking for those who don't fight against incredible odds, calling everything ironic or coincidence?
What are your thoughts? And who are the most famous scientists who are/were creationists?
It is literally a thread based on two well establish fallacies, appeal to authority and appeal to consequences.
It does not matter what someone's religious beliefs are to their ability to conduct science, therefore the presence or absence of religious beliefs of any type is not a causative factor to the findings of science.
Second, an appeal to consequences is fundamentally irrelevant to the truth of a statement. It is as flawed to say that science is valueless because of its misuse (a logical fallacy you cling to endlessly) to say religion is valueless because of its misuse (a logical fallacy atheists need to recognize as such as well).
Is it possible for a modern day scientist to believe in God?
Yes, many do.
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Could the life of a scientist be a total waste of time and life?
I guess it would depend on the scientist's values as to whether he has wasted his life. My guess would be that just about every scientist would answer with a resounding "NO"
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This is a very strange concept to many I'm sure, because scientists have given us some things that are worthy of appreciation, but is it really worth it?
Yes. Ask anyone who has had a loved one saved by scientific advances if it was "worth it."
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As I think about this I look upon this earth and consider the evidence. Since the explosion of knowledge which began around 100 years ago or so, are we really getting smarter? Can you honestly say that we are advancing as a human race? That's a question that has many different opinions of course, depending on what you call advancement. My opinion is, we are not advancing. Sure, technology is advancing, but we aren't. The one clear fact of evidence is the use of oil and the different ways we chose to get our energy. It couldn't be any more clearer to me, there is no hope for mankind on this planet and all hopes of leaving it will be denied because of our own choices. If we were really advancing then we would be doing things much different.
All science does is provide us with answers and new ways of doing things. How we apply what we learn is entirely up to us. Science isn't good or evil. Science can be used for good and evil. Looking back though, I am glad I have existed when I have. I wish I could exist even further in the future, to see what else we can learn/come up with. That said, we as humans can be incredibly flawed and short sighted. It is up to us to say "no, stop being so reckless with our resources."
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Just for the sake of the many religions out there, let's just call God an intelligent life force who is responsible for the creation of all that exists. There's either an intelligent personal being like ourselves who's responsible for all this, or not. If not then of course we would obviously need to hurry up and try to figure everything out, for our own sakes. So in that case, scientists would be right on. But what if there is an intelligent designer? Would that being want us to be trying to figure everything out when it comes to science? What if that intelligent personal being who created us in fact speaks to every single one of us every day in ways that are obvious and we chose to overlook these messages because of our lack of understand, and wanting to figure everything out? I'm sure scientist go through this all the time. Newton may have been one to think like this. What if the intelligent designer who is responsible for creating us has an entirely different view on intelligence, and is looking for those who don't fight against incredible odds, calling everything ironic or coincidence?
I think you're making some really dangerous implications. You say that if there is no God, then it makes perfect sense for scientists to continue attempting to "fix everything," by furthering advancements and knowledge.
Your alternative is to say that if there IS a God, perhaps scientists are wrong, and we shouldn't be mucking about trying to learn things.
I can't really get into words how dangerous this idea is. Especially now that human populations are reaching such staggeringly high numbers. The very notion that we should perhaps stop scientific progress in the hopes of maybe appeasing a deity (of which we can't be sure exists, or if he does, which deity it actually is) is so contrary to the good of humanity that I'm tempted to just flat out call it evil. Yes, this is an evil idea you're positing.
It is entirely up to us as a society to use what scientists learn and create to better ourselves and each other. There may be a god, but if there isn't we had better watch our backs.
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What are your thoughts? And who are the most famous scientists who are/were creationists?
The only "famous" scientists who are creationists are famous because they are creationists. They are not famous for doing anything of any renown. But because they are creationists, creationist groups trot them out to say "hey look scientists can be creationists too" even though the scientist in question isn't particularly noteworthy.
It is literally a thread based on two well establish fallacies, appeal to authority and appeal to consequences.
It does not matter what someone's religious beliefs are to their ability to conduct science, therefore the presence or absence of religious beliefs of any type is not a causative factor to the findings of science.
Second, an appeal to consequences is fundamentally irrelevant to the truth of a statement. It is as flawed to say that science is valueless because of its misuse (a logical fallacy you cling to endlessly) to say religion is valueless because of its misuse (a logical fallacy atheists need to recognize as such as well).
Big fat, thread fail.
We obviously have two totally different perspectives on the issue. This is how I see it. Remember, I don't believe, I know, that I have a personal relationship with God. So in my perspective it's all about God! I believe that's the entire reason for life. It's absolutely all about this Almighty intelligent being who created us - in His image - A living conscious being. When you look out there as a scientist your blown away by the magnitude of the universe and all it's wonders, but I'm blown away at the one who made it. The creation - what we see - pales in comparison to the creator. So to me, trying to figure everything out is a total waste of time and very dangerous. Because then you get people who try to claim the possibility of traveling into the future, no such thing as a straight line, and no such thing as eternal space in all directions - totally rediculous theorys. This robs them of real life. Day after day they intentionally fight the real facts which say the odds of certain theories are completely impossible, but yet they insist that it must be, because God isn't real. That's the ROOT of the problem. Next thing you know, your claiming facts which are based on a foundation of countless theories, all on top of each other. The popular opinion believes it so everyone agrees.
So of course I see most science as a waste of time and life. You may say some science is beneficial because of medical examples, but what about all the medical examples that are accually harmfull? Does it balance out? Probably not. Joe now has a leg, but Sue wants to kill herself because of some pills, and the alzheimer elder has lost his brain cells just so he can stop shaking. Utterly rediculous. Don't get me wrong. I'm not against all science. I'm all for the science of preventive maintenance when it comes to health and such. Things like Nutrition and biology would be great science I believe.
The bottom line is it's all about God! It's not about us, or our advancement. God's idea of our advancement is much different than what we think.
We obviously have two totally different perspectives on the issue. This is how I see it. Remember, I don't believe, I know, that I have a personal relationship with God. So in my perspective it's all about God! I believe that's the entire reason for life. It's absolutely all about this Almighty intelligent being who created us - in His image - A living conscious being. When you look out there as a scientist your blown away by the magnitude of the universe and all it's wonders, but I'm blown away at the one who made it. The creation - what we see - pales in comparison to the creator. So to me, trying to figure everything out is a total waste of time and very dangerous. Because then you get people who try to claim the possibility of traveling into the future, no such thing as a straight line, and no such thing as eternal space in all directions - totally rediculous theorys. This robs them of real life. Day after day they intentionally fight the real facts which say the odds of certain theories are completely impossible, but yet they insist that it must be, because God isn't real. That's the ROOT of the problem. Next thing you know, your claiming facts which are based on a foundation of countless theories, all on top of each other. The popular opinion believes it so everyone agrees.
So of course I see most science as a waste of time and life. You may say some science is beneficial because of medical examples, but what about all the medical examples that are accually harmfull? Does it balance out? Probably not. Joe now has a leg, but Sue wants to kill herself because of some pills, and the alzheimer elder has lost his brain cells just so he can stop shaking. Utterly rediculous. Don't get me wrong. I'm not against all science. I'm all for the science of preventive maintenance when it comes to health and such. Things like Nutrition and biology would be great science I believe.
The bottom line is it's all about God! It's not about us, or our advancement. God's idea of our advancement is much different than what we think.
Normally I'm OK with just letting believers believe and be happy, but this is really a line of thinking that I feel is dangerous, malicious and downright scary. You'd bring the world crashing down just to please your god.
Normally I'm OK with just letting believers believe and be happy, but this is really a line of thinking that I feel is dangerous, malicious and downright scary. You'd bring the world crashing down just to please your god.
Ok, this is America, I can respect that. But please tell us why you feel the way you do.
Why is this way of thinking dangerous?
Do you feel "I" am potentially a physically dangerous threat? Or just mentally/spiritually dangerous?
Ok, this is America, I can respect that. But please tell us why you feel the way you do.
Why is this way of thinking dangerous?
Do you feel "I" am potentially and physically dangerous? Or just mentally/spiritually dangerous?
When you place praising god as not only the most important in your life, but to the detriment of helping others, then yes, I believe your ideas have gone from being delightfully different to outright dangerous. The way you are talking you would like science to stop altogether - no more scientific advancements to feed our hungry, cure our sick, create new sustainable energy so that we can actually all afford to live on this planet, learn about how the universe works so we can better the way we live. Science has helped bring the world together, and can continue to do so. I have read today about the possibility of smart phones that are cheap enough to give out to millions of impoverished kids throughout the globe. Imagine a generation where information is readily available for even the poorest of us - what more could we as society accomplish if we all had the same starting point?
You would rather see us hungry, dying young and ignorant and blind to the way things are, so long as we praise your god before croaking. It is a worldview that is completely devoid of compassion or basic human decency. It is sickening.
I don't fear you as an individual. I do fear what would happen if a majority of the world did believe as you did.
When you place praising god as not only the most important in your life, but to the detriment of helping others, then yes, I believe your ideas have gone from being delightfully different to outright dangerous. The way you are talking you would like science to stop altogether - no more scientific advancements to feed our hungry, cure our sick, create new sustainable energy so that we can actually all afford to live on this planet, learn about how the universe works so we can better the way we live. Science has helped bring the world together, and can continue to do so. I have read today about the possibility of smart phones that are cheap enough to give out to millions of impoverished kids throughout the globe. Imagine a generation where information is readily available for even the poorest of us - what more could we as society accomplish if we all had the same starting point?
You would rather see us hungry, dying young and ignorant and blind to the way things are, so long as we praise your god before croaking. It is a worldview that is completely devoid of compassion or basic human decency. It is sickening.
I don't fear you as an individual. I do fear what would happen if a majority of the world did believe as you did.
You say:
I'd rather see you hungry. Have you bought food lately? So your telling me all your advancement is causing the price of food to go down? A corrupt company like Monsanto, patenting food and stealing farmers land and lively hood is helping. What a great judge that must have been responsible for allowing that?
You say:
I'd rather see you hungry. Have you bought food lately? So your telling me all your advancement is causing the price of food to go down? A corrupt company like Monsanto, patenting food and stealing farmers land and lively hood is helping. What a great judge that must have been responsible for allowing that?
Now your lighting my fire! I'm not finished yet.
Like I said earlier: science can be used for good or evil. It is simply a tool. It is up to us to wield it correctly. That won't be easy as there are definitely greedy people out there.
But to deny us the tool outright? That is irresponsible. That is what I find so disagreeable with your beliefs, as stated in this thread.
Like I said earlier: science can be used for good or evil. It is simply a tool. It is up to us to wield it correctly. That won't be easy as there are definitely greedy people out there.
But to deny us the tool outright? That is irresponsible. That is what I find so disagreeable with your beliefs, as stated in this thread.
Well, now were getting right down to the root of the matter. Like I said, it's not hard to look around and see what's going on in this world. Science in and of itself is not necessarily evil, I agree. But think about this. You, a person claiming to be all for the people, all loving and everything, are standing behind the crooked people who are ruling this world - following the crowd. Even you yourself, after coming across like you care, willingly stand behind the leaders of this world who are bringing about it's destruction. Just a few posts above you said something like, "watch your back"! You don't even realize deep in your heart and mind, your given over to this corrupt world and willing to go down with it. Without even researching it, I'd be willing to bet the people responsible for Monsanto's evil are the same people who own the scientific laboratories responsible for Genetically Modified Organisms. That's a no brainer. But of course, you and all your scientist friends just keep on following everyone right over the cliff. Then you have the nerve to look back at someone like me standing there - trying to warn you - and say, "hey, I'd watch my back if I were you". No, it's much better to look forward and see where your going, and realize the reality of the matter. Any dead fish can tumble down stream. That's easy. It's those of us who accually care, that are going against the flow. But no, you insist on claiming I'm dangerous...lol.
Anyway, look around your world of advancement. Notice the increasing natural disasters that's causing death, homelessness, starvation, and just as notable, DEBT. What's the cause of all this? Oh, ok, your scientist's (who are paid by the greedy rich) say there's no such thing as global warming. So, surely your advancement isn't causing it right? Ok, we'll leave that arguement alone then.
You say, it's all about us. The believer's in God and anti-scientists are the ones who don't care. Your advancement is doing good for the world. Scientists will one day overcome the wicked heart of man and everything will be ok, and if we have to we'll just fly away to another world.
Is that correct?
I'll admit, religious people have been a huge problem as well. But don't blame God for that. And don't blame someone who's as harmless as a dove and want's people to understand it's absolutely all about advancing into a trust in God, believing in His Word which promises eternal life in the most glorious place possible.
Consider this world like a field where God grows His children. It's not about this world or our advancement. It's about becoming intelligent enough to know God is absolutely perfect and it's 100% all about Him. It's all about being thankfull, not for the creation, but for the creator. His reward will surely come.
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