Why the craziness? (church, atheist, bible, quote)
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Many atheists came out of theism at great personal cost and pain. It is understandable that they are somewhat reactionary. Other atheists were never theists, but have experienced a good deal of hassle for their unbelief. That, too, gets old after awhile.
When I left theism one of the hardest parts of it was my distaste for "big-A" atheists like Dawkins and their provocative, derisive approach to theists. But two things have happened over the years. On the one hand, apart from the flamboyant Dawkins-style operators, I realize that most atheists are quite reserved and willing to live and let live, and on the other hand, the further you get from the reality distortion field that is theism, the more you realize how much it's cost you throughout your life to live that lie; and this makes me more understanding of how some atheists act / react. Also, there's actually a third thing, a rather agressive amount of misinformation about atheism coming from theists. It's not a conspiracy, although theist leadership tends not to speak out against it, as it's useful; but the idea that atheists lack moral convictions, spend their time in orgies, are depressed and desperate, sad people, and similar notions, are quite insulting and dishonest, and it can be quite vexing to constantly deal with those caricatures.
Finally, no offense, but talking to most theists is like talking to a brick wall, and sometimes it seems like the only thing that might possibly get through and force some actual thinking is shock therapy. I know I was a brick wall when I was an evangelical; your mileage may vary but basically, it's hard in my experience to find theists who actually want honest engagement (which I define as discussion of actual facts and then following those wherever they lead, even if contrary to dogma). Some of the provocative thread names you cite are really just an effort to jolt theists out of their comfortable illusions, plant a seed here and there and hope that down the line some of the ideas presented actually register.
My thought is that for some, the stakes are too high if they are wrong. They simply can't be wrong or else....
Sure you can argue the same for theists, yet for some reason the desperate threads and posts aren't seen here from the theist camp.
Thoughts?
You seem to be participating in the same actions that you seem to detest. You pick and choose these particular threads while conveniently omitting threads like these:
Mordant's post is very accurate. However, we atheists also see theism as a threat to our children, our government, and our rights. We feel these are important enough to fight for. Why are we not allowed to be as passionate about our thoughts as theists?
You seem to be participating in the same actions that you seem to detest. You pick and choose these particular threads while conveniently omitting threads like these:
Mordant's post is very accurate. However, we atheists also see theism as a threat to our children, our government, and our rights. We feel these are important enough to fight for. Why are we not allowed to be as passionate about our thoughts as theists?
Well yes, but you never see the desperate sounding posts from theists that one sees from atheists.
Threats to children? Like maybe exposure to a different POV is dangerous? Kinda scary that your children might be exposed to the world at large? My point. Yet some atheists take issue with Christians raising their children in the faith. Umm...what is the H word that my wine addled mind fails the grasp? My wife is a help. She says I should use the word...hypocrite. OK
Well yes, but you never see the desperate sounding posts from theists that one sees from atheists.
Threats to children? Like maybe exposure to a different POV is dangerous? Kinda scary that your children might be exposed to the world at large? My point. Yet some atheists take issue with Christians raising their children in the faith. Umm...what is the H word that my wine addled mind fails the grasp? My wife is a help. She says I should use the word...hypocrite. OK
Theism requires the suspension of logic, reason, and critical thinking which, when taught to our children is dangerous. Especially at Xmas time, children are inundated with images of mangers, wise men, and child-bearing virgins. Their Christian peers are taught to look at atheists as evil and children to be avoided. I exposed my children to religion but encouraged them to come to their own conclusions, without my influences. I don't know many Christian parents who would do the same. Exposure is not the issue, programming and brain-washing are.
Yes, I believe hypocrite is the word, considering your reason for this thread was to find out why atheists are disrespectful.
Us theists can learn a lesson from some of the atheists here. They show us just how obnoxious we can be in trying to prove our beliefs upon those who desire not to hear them.
I say it is about time they came out and let us see how we appear.
Yes I would like to see all people find that God(swt) exists. But that is something I am not going to be able to do by using what I believe to be scripture.
I would like for all people to accept the belief I follow, but that is not going to happen by anything I say. A person needs to find reasons to believe, we can not make anyone believe what they find no reason to believe.
To prove God(swt) exists to an atheist one needs to provide verifiable facts from sources they recognize as undeniable proof. The message Atheists have sent us is: we have not been doing that.
My wife, a lifelong atheist, allowed her children to explore religion. One had no interest, the other was quite interested and had her Bible story books, etc.; although she ultimately decided it was baloney it took her until late in her teens to sort that out.
My two children, on the other hand, were raised in an evangelical home, even home schooled for quite some time, and they are both atheists and wonder why I took so long to catch on.
The truth is, when it comes to "passing on your values", kids are a crap shoot anyway. They end up doing whatever they want. That said ... I think when some atheists see theism as a threat to their children, it's not so much the ideas as threats to their well being -- it's the bigotry they encounter in theist-dominated school systems, for example. Most of us get around that by avoiding the "a-word". It's now fairly acceptable in much of the US to be areligious or unchurched or even agnostic, so long as you don't go so far as to say you don't believe in god. You can lack enthusiasm or certainty, but as soon as you're sure, you can expect all sorts of static about it. I suppose until you cross that Rubicon there is still some hope that you can be brought back into the fold, but afterwards, you become taboo. So a lot of us pose as backsliders. My guess is that the sheer number of closet atheists would frighten most theists.
I would like for all people to accept the belief I follow, but that is not going to happen by anything I say. A person needs to find reasons to believe, we can not make anyone believe what they find no reason to believe.
To prove God(swt) exists to an atheist one needs to provide verifiable facts from sources they recognize as undeniable proof. The message Atheists have sent us is: we have not been doing that.
Wow. You actually get it. And I am not being facetious ... I really appreciate that you get it.
One of the hardest things for many theists to understand is that belief is not an act of the will. You evaluate evidence and you either buy it or you don't. I think the problem is that there's a tendency to take a difference of belief as an insult of some kind -- as if someone not believing as you do is calling you stupid. Some atheists make this worse by ridiculing theistic beliefs, but the truth is, I don't automatically think a theist is stupid for being a theist. After all, I was one once myself. It's a compelling meme. Also, if your'e reasonably lucky, it's a comforting meme. I get that. Theism is very compartmentalized in most people anyway, you can be a brilliant scientist or engineer and still believe in the virgin birth -- I understand how that can be. I don't assume anything about the intelligence of theists, I just assume they have what I consider some blind spots. I wish they could cut me the same slack. Once in awhile they do, more often not.
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