Why did Stalin murder millions of Christians & destroy churches?! (translation, Mormon)
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Why try to associate them with theism or atheism . . . because both categories contain ample evidence of killers.
Only if you play the "That person was atheist/theist" card which is a bad card to play. Listing bad people under the two headings is clearly not going to help much. Correlation and Causation and all that.
The question instead is whether we can link the actions in question to atheism or theism causally. That gives a _much_ different set of results and one that does not favor theism at all given I am yet to find a single example to put under the atheism column.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nunnor
So just because you disagree with someones faith you should persecute and murder millions of them? Go burn and destroy thousand year old churches, etc.?
This is exactly what militant atheists do when they get in power. Yet atheists wonder why nobody wants them to hold in public office (They are banned in several states).
Of course not, I'm just explaining the historical background why so many hated the Church at the time. Many then, as now, couldn't separate the Church from the Faith.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth-Kaunda
and it's not just the church - let's not forget the horrors and subjugation committed under the name of Islam, Hinduism and Judaism.
They are all as bad as each other here.
Indeed, Christianity and Hinduism seem especially puzzling. People justifying such vile acts when the religions are supposed to be so peace-loving. Violence by Hindu nationalists, especially since Independence, isn't something many know about.
But Nunnor and others here just willfully close their eyes, minds and ability to comprehend history.
Repeat: Atheism is not directly associated with violent repression. This is like saying that peanut butter is specifically responsible for all fat people. Well, I mean, overweight people are often seen dining on peanut butter sandwiches, non? So ergo, according to Nunnor...
What mental rubbish. Can we expect more of this high level of thinking, Nunnor? If so, let us know so we can go elsewhere. Your personal distain for atheists (not atheism...) is showing again. You've pegged us all to violent abhorrent and anti-social behavior.
With the likes of, for example that vicious killer Einstein, or Carl Sagan, or the vicious deeds of Chris Hitchens and Dr. Dawkins and Stephen Hawking, Noam Chomsky, Arthur C. Clark, Sigmond Freud, Jody Foster, Werner Herzog, Richard Leakey & associates, the über-murderously minded John Lennon, and indeed my own murderous past... (they just haven't caught up with me yet, I suppose...)
I could go on and on and on, listing literally thousands of honorable, honest and civil-minded atheists, all with their own specific spiritualities and common decencies. And independent minds. But you get the idea: that you were wrong. Yup; for sure.
So now let's look at murderously minded Christians. and their use of the formal church's authority to suppress innocent but naive people. No, let's not: it would take too much time and typing. But you know of course, they are out there. We could start with a few wartime popes, but let's not... it would be too embarrassing to your wild-asp ascertions.
Quite interesting, your thought processes. When in doubt, pull out The Demon Atheist Card!
Too bad no-one buys that tripe any more though, huh? You'll have to try to take down the very real threat of critically thinking atheists some other way. But for sure listing Stalin , Hitler, Pol Pot and so on doesn't cut it.
But still, in your desperation. I'm quite sure you'll try it again later, with some people who you think don't know any better. Good luck!
This is no different than saying when christians come into power, they will act the same as Hitler and the conquistadors. Also, saying leaders like Hitler weren't real christians only says that Stalin wasn't a true atheist. Stereotyping a whole group of people is ignorant and foolish. Just like not all christians would rule the same as Hitler if a christian comes into power, not all atheist leaders act like Stalin.
I'd say, as a good example, we've had several atheist Presidents here in the US, but they keep it to themselves and act the part of good Christians since atheism has been tainted by the endless onslaught of bias and dung-flinging by jealous and threatened Christians.
What this country needs is a good honest atheist who an keep theism well out of our national politics. It certainly does not belong there, inflicting a specific theology's mandates on an unwilling populace. Even that "In God We Trust" label should rightfully be struck, since it was, after all, simply a direct result of rampant anti-communist McCarthyism and other reactionary inflictions. It continues to be a fly in the spiritual soup of many people in this country.
In God You Trust? Really? What has He done for you lately, or ever for that matter, that you can positively and unambiguously point out?
His obvious help with Katrina or Sandy? Or with those Haitian earthquakes and hurricanes? That SE Asian Tsunami? Violent tectonic shifts that devastate entire areas like Mexico City? And so on? Hmmm... In God You Trust? To do what, exactly? Work in Mysterious Ways? You betcha!
But what about us atheists? Who should we trust? You? A non-existent God figurehead?
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Oh btw, in Russia today, the Russian Orthodox Church is maintiaied by the body politic in order to manage the restless religious contingent within Russia. Following the recent destruction of an evangelical Christian church in Russia, one that did not tow the official party line:
This quote:
"You talk to any evangelical leader in Russia and they will tell you this is all about ideology. The government and the Russian Orthodox Church view us evangelicals as a threat.”
... from this very interesting article about Russia's "approval" of their selected and official church.
This is no different than saying when christians come into power, they will act the same as Hitler and the conquistadors. Also, saying leaders like Hitler weren't real christians only says that Stalin wasn't a true atheist. Stereotyping a whole group of people is ignorant and foolish. Just like not all christians would rule the same as Hitler if a christian comes into power, not all atheist leaders act like Stalin.
The difference is that Hitler became an atheist when he got into power. He rejected his Judeo-Christian faith, and murdered millions of Christians too (especially those who disagreed with him).
I'd say, as a good example, we've had several atheist Presidents here in the US, but they keep it to themselves and act the part of good Christians since atheism has been tainted by the endless onslaught of bias and dung-flinging by jealous and threatened Christians.
No, 98% of the presidents were Christians, and one or two were Deists.
Actually it is the atheists that are jealous by us Christians, because we are smart and educated, and have successfully being able to run for president. Without any Christians, you wouldn't be living in freedom here in the U.S. Too bad people like you do not appreciate it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman
What this country needs is a good honest atheist who an keep theism well out of our national politics. It certainly does not belong there, inflicting a specific theology's mandates on an unwilling populace. Even that "In God We Trust" label should rightfully be struck, since it was, after all, simply a direct result of rampant anti-communist McCarthyism and other reactionary inflictions. It continues to be a fly in the spiritual soup of many people in this country.
Sorry, but we do not need any atheists holding public office. This country was founded upon Christian beliefs, principals, and culture ever since the foundation, and even before the colonies.
Even if it wasn't, it's hard to trust atheists becoming in the congress, holding public offices, and running for president due to the past and present history.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman
In God You Trust? Really? What has He done for you lately, or ever for that matter, that you can positively and unambiguously point out?
His obvious help with Katrina or Sandy? Or with those Haitian earthquakes and hurricanes? That SE Asian Tsunami? Violent tectonic shifts that devastate entire areas like Mexico City? And so on? Hmmm... In God You Trust? To do what, exactly? Work in Mysterious Ways? You betcha!
But what about us atheists? Who should we trust? You? A non-existent God figurehead?
Yes, In God We Trust, and we're proud of holding that national motto. It should be extended and be put on all credit cards, police cars, fire trucks, all public buildings, public schools, and everywhere.
God has protected us for the most part, however since atheists have tried to remove God from the public, removed prayer from public schools, etc., this nation has been messed up and went down.
If you truly read the Bible (Which I assume you did not), you will clearly see that God told us that end of the world is coming, and sometimes we will see bad things happening, and not only good things in the world, and in our lives. Those who truly believe in God from their heart, He will protect us in many ways, but we may still encounter bad things because of our sins.[/quote]
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"Trust" is a fickle thing, obviously....
