God 'sacrificed' his only son... so what? (salvation, soul, grace)

[satanoid]

First of all, how was it a sacrifice when jesus was only subjected to a few days of pain, and then immediately zipped back up to heaven to be with god? He 'gave his only begotten son'... oh really? It seems he sent him off for a short while, and what is that time to a being who is supposedly eternal?

What kind of sacrifice was that? God knew exactly what would happen, and knew that jesus would be right back. He didn't send jesus to hell for eternity, he reserves that 'sacrifice' for us humans, his less favored children.

Secondly, god could make a billion christs, and sacrifice them all, so what makes jesus so special?

Lastly, god makes the rules, so why is it some big sacrifice that he sends his 'son' to earth for a few decades, has him killed, and promptly brought back to heaven? He could have just said 'eh, ok you're all forgiven.' Who would argue with him?

The hours jesus spent (or who knows, maybe didn't spend) on the cross are a mere SHADOW of the pain going on all over the earth. A burn victim, a machete amputee, a molested child - may suffer a lifetime of anguish, and yet we're supposed to be impressed by a few days of torture?

The ideology behind this really confuses me... it assumes all sorts of ideas, all of which seems to be fallacious.

[Tricky D]

Let's assume that God didn't exist, but Jesus did. And Jesus did exactly what he preached about; he lived by loving others like he loved himself, so he would also not hurt others, because that would be like hurting yourself.
Then just because Jesus simply refused to compromise his beliefs, he was killed. You could say that Jesus sacrificed his life for everything he believed in.
Namely that God=Love and he refused to worship any other god.

[katie45]

I understand your questions and the only comment I can make is that each of us have our own belief system. Many feel as you do, and yet others would call your comments blasphemy.

One of your comments I couldn't agree with you more...about the ongoing daily suffering of millions of people that can last for decades.

Many believe that God and Jesus are one and the same. Many believe that God/Jesus is truly somewhere out in the great expanse of the universe looking down on us. Many believe that God is within each of us and we are our own God and create our own destiny. Many believe in Heaven/Hell, and many believe that when our bodies die, that's it...nothing more.

I can't give you a 'one and only' answer to your questions since spirituality is based on faith and one's beliefs. Many times those belief systems are what they have known since childhood and they feel comfortable with them and never question. Many have the beliefs out of guilt trips and/or fear of ending up in a pit of fire for eternity.

[arguy1973]

True..Christ death didnt last a decade..or a hundred years..but the result of his death and resurrection has eternal results...according to the Bible and my belief is that he bore all our sin upon him..thats the key here..God stepped down from heaven and became man..so that he could feel our pain..know our afflictions..knew what it was like to have a family here on earth..he saw his friends die..he wept..
"For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins" (Heb. 10:4). It couldn't be just any death. It was a man's soul that was lost in the garden, atonement required a man's death. But, it couldn't be just any man. A sinless soul was lost in Eden, only a sinless man could make atonement. Thus, the perfect Son of God had to die. "For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him" (2 Cor. 5:21). Only in the death of Jesus is this wrong made right and God's righteous judgment satisfied. In the cross we see the painful reality of what has been said, "He paid a debt He didn't owe because we owed a debt we couldn't pay."
John 3.17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

John 4.42 They said to the woman, “It is no longer because of what you said that we believe, for we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this is indeed the Savior of the world.”

I Tim. 4:10, ". . . because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe."

1 John 2.2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

[waiting]

I hear what you're saying.
God loves all of his children. ( everyone )
But God is perfect and there is no darkness at all in God and we are very
imperfect.
God provided a sacrifice and that is Christ.
Christ did not have to come to this earth, be born of a human, live in a humble estate, suffer and die for our sins.
Think of all the big wigs all around us. No one would even think of sacrificing for us even a half of what Christ does.
God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believed on him would have eternal life.
You have to appreciate the pain he went thru.
Torture is not something I would want to go thru even for a couple hours.

God is completely fair; no one goes to " hell " without totally knowing what they are doing: rejecting God and his sacrifice.

Because Jesus said that if you saw him you saw the Father and that the Father and him were one.


Lastly, god makes the rules, so why is it some big sacrifice that he sends his 'son' to earth for a few decades, has him killed, and promptly brought back to heaven? He could have just said 'eh, ok you're all forgiven.' Who would argue with him?

The hours jesus spent (or who knows, maybe didn't spend) on the cross are a mere SHADOW of the pain going on all over the earth. A burn victim, a machete amputee, a molested child - may suffer a lifetime of anguish, and yet we're supposed to be impressed by a few days of torture?

The ideology behind this really confuses me... it assumes all sorts of ideas, all of which seems to be fallacious.

A lot of the teachings in churches are confusing. The best thing to do is get a KJ Bible and start reading it for yourself. Ask God for wisdom to understand it.
I had all the questions you did at one time, but when one learns the truth it all makes sense.

[cg81]

Originally Posted by satanoid

God 'sacrificed' his only son... so what?

So you, satanoid, could be saved...

[june 7th]

Originally Posted by satanoid

The ideology behind this really confuses me... it assumes all sorts of ideas, all of which seems to be fallacious.

While I understand what it is you are asking/addressing, I can't help but wonder (feel) that it is the underlying message within the content of the gospels that perhaps answers your queries...(???) For instance, what is addressed regarding the process of love, sacrifice, and unification with god? How does Jesus (his life, words, actions) underscore all human suffering while addressing the basic human condition? As I am not a Christian, I cannot address the basic principle or notion behind resurrection, but I can't help but think that that holds some basic key to the question(s) you raised...

Take gentle care...

[Magnum Mike]

To the OP - I'm afraid you don't see the entire picture of what Jesus sacrificed.

He didn't only sacrifice his life and suffer the pain of the crucifiction for our sins, he also sacrificed everything else he had here on earth to serve God the Father and bring the truth and salvation to those who are lost. The devil tried to tempt Jesus with the riches of the land, but Jesus resisted the temptation and stood by the will his Father. If somebody offered you a choice of earthly riches, or be crucified to satisfy God's will and have the riches God promises those who are obedient to him, what would you choose? Jesus chose to decline earthly riches for only one reason, because God loved us and he wanted to show us his love through his Son.

[sean98125]

Before Christ, the altar was a place where humans brought offerings to God (or the Gods). In some religions the altar was where animals or even humans were sacrificed to appease God.

Now, when Christians celebrate the Eucharist, they gather around an Altar where Jesus changed the relationship between God and humanity. The bread is his body, broken for us. The wine is his blood, spilled for us. The Eucharist is God offering Himself to us, just as our ancestors made offerings to Him and other gods.

The sacrifice of Christ is not meant to show some equivalence with the sacrifices that humans live with every day. Christ knew that his death would be the birth of the church. Even if you reject the doctrine of corporeal Resurrection, Christ's assertion that he would live even after death is metaphorically true. Christ is resurrected in the church of his believers, the Body of Christ. His death on the cross led to the continuation of his message and teachings in the world.

As far as why God couldn't just forgive us without the sacrifice of his son, that's forgetting that our relationship with God is a covenant. It's a contract. Before the crucifixion, the contract stated that we were to follow certain laws and codes to demonstrate our faith. After the crucifixion, the contract states that Christians are to be God's body in the world. God has our hands with which to work, our eyes with which to see, our ears with which to hear. (The crucifixion didn't revoke the old contract. People who choose to live by the law are still judged by the law. Christians live by grace.) Christ's sacrifice is what the new covenant is built upon.

[satanoid]

Yeah, I'm not impressed.

God writes the rules, and changes them on a whim... so his 'sacrifice' was completely meaningless.