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i was not aware that Germany was desolate for 2,000 years that all the people of Germany were killed and scattered throughout the world and hated! Poland and Ireland also. WoW!!
Could you please provide some proof of this?? I am anxious to LEARN!!
If you google Irish diaspora and Weimar Republic it's a good start, then you can come back and we'll answer any questions you have.
Oh, and by the way, there have been people continuously living in the area now called Israel since about 12,000 BCE.
Take Ain Mallaha, for example
Quote:
The site is located in Northern Israel, 25 kilometres (16 mi) North of the Sea of Galilee, and is in an area surrounded by hills and located by an ancient lake, Lake Huleh. At the time of its inhabitance, the area was heavily forested in oak, almond, and pistachio trees.[2] The Natufian village was colonized in three phases. The first two phases had massive stone-built structures with smaller ones in the third phase. These phases occurred from 12,000 to 9600 B.C. The dwellings were cut into the earth, had subterranean floors, and wall that were built of drystone. Wooden posts supported the roofs, which were probably thatches with brushwood or animal hides.[3] Hearths were located within the dwellings.
Ain Mallaha contains the earliest known archeological evidence of dog domestication: the burial of a human being with a domestic dog.[4]
When Babylon expelled some Jews around 500-ish, they didn't expel all of them, and they didn't leave the area unpopulated. They used the land themselves.
you can quote scripture and speculate about these supposed prophecies but until your Jesus shows back up you have no proof of anything.
I've always found it ironic that Christians continue to wait for the messiah to return while the Jews are still waiting for him to show up in the first place.
Ultimately, you will grow old and die and you will still be waiting for Jesus to come back while your Jewish counterparts will grow old and die waiting for their messiah to show up to save them. For unbelievers? We get to die knowing that it is part of life and no "god" is going to save us from this inevitable end.
Wikipedia has a short description of that period. There may only 14,000 people in the 1860s, but it expanded rapidly then, rather than declining until 1948 as you imply.
Quote:
By the 1860s, the city, with an area of only one square kilometer, was already overcrowded. Thus began the construction of the New City, the part of Jerusalem outside of the city walls. Seeking new areas to stake their claims, the Russian Orthodox Church began constructing a complex, now known as the Russian Compound, a few hundred meters from Jaffa Gate. The first attempt at residential settlement outside the walls of Jerusalem was undertaken by Jews, who built a small complex on the hill overlooking Zion Gate, across the Valley of Hinnom. This settlement, known as Mishkenot Sha'ananim, eventually flourished and set the precedent for other new communities to spring up to the west and north of the Old City. In time, as the communities grew and connected geographically, this became known as the New City.
In 1882, around 150 Jewish families arrived in Jerusalem from Yemen. Initially they were not accepted by the Jews of Jerusalem and lived in destitute conditions supported by the Christians of the Swedish-American colony, who called them Gadites.[42] In 1884, the Yemenites moved into Silwan.
There is a nice discussion of Twain and Melville's visits in "American Palestine: Melville, Twain, and the Holy Land mania" by Hilton Obenzinger. You might find it's applicable to you.
Last edited by Wild Colonial Girl; 03-30-2013 at 05:13 PM..
you can quote scripture and speculate about these supposed prophecies but until your Jesus shows back up you have no proof of anything.
I've always found it ironic that Christians continue to wait for the messiah to return while the Jews are still waiting for him to show up in the first place.
Ultimately, you will grow old and die and you will still be waiting for Jesus to come back while your Jewish counterparts will grow old and die waiting for their messiah to show up to save them. For unbelievers? We get to die knowing that it is part of life and no "god" is going to save us from this inevitable end.
Thanks for your detailed response; Ah but I do have proof - so much is easy to discern - now that we can 'look' back. So If I can look back and see what was said; and hundreds of years later the exact specific event take place - it is most definetly true. Prophecy isn't mean't to predict the future - It is for reference so that when the event does happen - (As God said it would) It is to God's credit!! He said it - It happens - It was accurate. FOR INSTANCE!!
Lets take your statement - " I've always found it ironic that Christians continue to wait for the messiah to return while the Jews are still waiting for him to show up in the first place."
c.f. John 1:11 He (Jesus) came unto his own (Jews) but they received him not! That was verfied by John and it was also foretold in many other places in the Old Testament - It was predicted (by whom?) God said it.
If is also foretold why and when the jews would mourn @ his appearing - "Not until they say - blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord" -The ONE who they (Jews) have pierced!
It was foretold long ago - they would not accept him! Hundreds of years later John writes (He came unto his own and they received him not). He was an eye witness - You are a witness that his own (the jews) as a majority still do not accept Him. I am a witness that many Jews have come to believe in the fact HE was the messiah indeed based on the their knowledge of the old testament which was a shadow of things to come.
When I read any book in the bible; I never read it once. I keep re-reading it over and over @ least 5 times. Each time i re-read it - I find things i never ever saw before.
This book is outside of our time domain - An extraterrestrial Message!
Wikipedia has a short description of that period. There may only 14,000 people in the 1860s, but it expanded rapidly then, rather than declining until 1948 as you imply.
There is a nice discussion of Twain and Melville's visits in "American Palestine: Melville, Twain, and the Holy Land mania" by Hilton Obenzinger. You might find it's applicable to you.
Thanks for that info! I stand corrected - I made a mistake by mixing them up. I read and absorb so much; I spend much of my time - studying. Fascinating way to spend time . Alas we live in a visual fast paced world and reading books & such seems obsolete to some.
Thanks for the sources and info! I wish more people would be so through!! Big reps to ya
you can quote scripture and speculate about these supposed prophecies but until your Jesus shows back up you have no proof of anything.
I've always found it ironic that Christians continue to wait for the messiah to return while the Jews are still waiting for him to show up in the first place.
Ultimately, you will grow old and die and you will still be waiting for Jesus to come back while your Jewish counterparts will grow old and die waiting for their messiah to show up to save them. For unbelievers? We get to die knowing that it is part of life and no "god" is going to save us from this inevitable end.
Apocalyptic cults have always been popular. Nothing like imminent destruction to fill the coffers. They were rampant in Judea a couple of thousand years ago, and just like the Seventh Day adventists (1844) and Harold Campign, Judaism and Christianity they often survive by pushing their predictions a couple of years further out. Not many are stupid enough to bring it on like Jim Jones was.
You're welcome. I find the techniques of critical thinking very useful on the internet as well as in studying history. Any statement should cause you to ask who said it, what the context was, why they said it and most importantly, what objective facts and alternate opinions either support or discredit the statement.
As always, I have to challenge the concept of "proofs", as presented again and again, of the bible's supposedly prophetic truths, returning ad infinitum and ad nauseum by Christian acolytes, to the relentless background of Zulu-like drumbeats & warchants.
Sorry: these are either too vague, too dependent on a vague interpretation, and/or too
Agreed. Why do all also forget that Bible as such is written by Jews, who are known to be very - what's the right word - self supportive? Including Christianity, which is another religion started by Jews. Yes, I know, many of them were killed "because they murdered Christ" but for many Christians, Jews became untouchable same time, as "chosen, God's people". Cool shield to have.
Always remember basic and UNDOUBTFUL principle - he, who benefits from something. .....
And cut the crap about US not supporting Israel. Israel is clearly cleansing entire area around itself with American hands. You ever thought, why is it, that Israel - out of all neighboring countries or other powers on Earth - is numero uno ally to the USA? Israel sneezes, USA sends our children to die in a war somewhere else. Who was it - president of Malaysia, I believe, who said, that USA is proxy military power to Israel, to clear Israel's geo political interests in the world?
It all begins in Genesis (book of beginnings) Unto the woman God said: (prophetic) Thy seed shall bruise (serpents) head. A woman doesn't have seed! that is why the genealogy in Matthew was written; to show that Christ is the ONE.
Isaiah chapter 9:6 - for unto us: A child is "born" (Bethlehem). A son is "given" (Golgotha) and HIS name shall be called - WONDERFUL - COUNSELOR - THE PRINCE OF PEACE- THE MIGHTY GOD - THE EVERLASTING FATHER.
Isaiah chapter 53 details the crucifixion of Christ some 700 years before it ever happened.
Inside that chapter are the names of all 12 of the apostles! (Isaiah is Old Testament) How did all of those names "happen" to be in there before they were even born??
It was predicted long before it ever happened that Christ would be crucified among theives - He would be buried in a rich man's tomb - He would rise on the 3rd day. 297 more specific predictions about HIM!!
Your first challenge is to prove that the Gospels were accurate when they claimed that these events occurred. Until you can do this, you cannot claim the predictions in the OT as been prophetic.
Your first challenge is to prove that the Gospels were accurate when they claimed that these events occurred. Until you can do this, you cannot claim the predictions in the OT as been prophetic.
Thank you. I said that the Bible was provably false and the prophecies provably retrospective. I would have to be ready to substantiate this if needful
Some will recall that over several debate the 'first 7 books' were shown to be folklore. myth or national ideology. At least not reliable fact.
I also pointed out that the prophecies of Tyre and Babylon were right up to a particular date and thereafter wrong -that being evidence of retrospective prophecy.
Daniel too can be shown to relate to history up to the Ptolemaic/selucid wars and right to the outbreak of the Maccabean revolt.Thereafter it doesn't fit anything. That also shows it to to be retrospective prophecy.
The gospels too, following Paul's method of fiddling and misusing OT text to 'prove' his thesis (in Romans) ransack the OT for prophecies of Jesus which don't look relevant in context. lead to gospel screenplay not confirmed by the other gospels (the spear -thrust), or history (the massacre of innocents) or are just a dog's dinner as in the mangling of the OT quotes in Matthew and Luke's notes on the death of Judas.
That, succinctly is why I do not buy the proof of God through prophecy argument.
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