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I never took it as them trying to argue a believer out of their beliefs. At least not on here. Most times I took it as an attempt to ridicule or to shame or mock that person for believing something that isn't grounded in scientific fact, statistics, etc. I always just took it as their way of reaffirming themselves.
Answer to OP: Same way theists think they can argue a person into believing... it doesn't work... BTW, neither does Conservative/GOP > Liberal/Dem or the other way around.
You are asking someone to change their core belief system. Not like asking them to try Coke instead of Pepsi or a new laundry detergent.
It absolutely works. I was mired in Christianity until some non-believers made me reevaluate my beliefs. Of course my mind always required evidence in all other aspects of my life, but it took outsiders to make me realize that the same should be criterion should be used in my views of religion.
It absolutely works. I was mired in Christianity until some non-believers made me reevaluate my beliefs. Of course my mind always required evidence in all other aspects of my life, but it took outsiders to make me realize that the same should be criterion should be used in my views of religion.
And yet, I was raised in an atheistic home and here I am a Christian. Well wadda ya know!
It can work either way; I've seen both; one does not preclude the other.
True, I think people make decisions based on "factors". Mostly I've seen people become atheists because they want to believe there is no God. But that's just my personal experience. My parents were hostile towards the idea of a Deity being in charge. They wanted to be the Masters of their fate and wanted to live their lives without being told they were in error. This "God" thing was offensive and troubling to how they wanted to live their lives. So they chose to believe there was no God. Their minds were set and discussion of God was ridiculed.
True, I think people make decisions based on "factors". Mostly I've seen people become atheists because they want to believe there is no God. But that's just my personal experience. My parents were hostile towards the idea of a Deity being in charge. They wanted to be the Masters of their fate and wanted to live their lives without being told they were in error. This "God" thing was offensive and troubling to how they wanted to live their lives. So they chose to believe there was no God. Their minds were set and discussion of God was ridiculed.
That's how my home life was.
They obviously had the wrong motivations for, as you stated, "believing there is no God". If that is the case I can understand why you would turn to Christianity. There is a difference between "choosing to believe there is no god", and "having no belief in a god". I doubt that they stressed the advantages of reasoning and thinking through issues critically.
True, I think people make decisions based on "factors". Mostly I've seen people become atheists because they want to believe there is no God.
To me that makes not one bit of sense at all. Your statement operates on the assumption that there is a god, and others "want to believe there is no god". That's like, what if I believe in flying crocodiles, with no way to demonstrate it in a way people can agree on-- and I say that a disbeliever "just doesn't want to believe in flying crocodiles". It's just totally illogical. That's my reaction.
I hope my explanations of how we see the odds above has helped you to see why there is no real comparison here. I don't bother to check the Internet every day to see if the sun bothered to come up, as the odds of that not happening (and me still being alive to wonder about it!) are such that it's not worth the effort or concern. Faith is a legitimate shortcut to searching for validating empirical evidence, for small and inconsequential gaps in knowledge or understanding. I'm willing to risk that my doctor is competent even though I can't absolutely personally verify that absent getting my own medical degree in the same specialty, amassing some experience, and then interviewing him extensively. That's why we have degrees, certifications, medical boards, state requirements, and the testimony of other patients and other publicly available information -- so I can assure myself to a reasonable degree, approaching 99%, that this guy is qualified to operate on my heart or brain or whatever. Faith over that 1% uncertainty is legitimate, else we would never decide about anything. But faith for the purposes of papering over 99.9% uncertainty (or about anything of consequence, even 30% uncertainty) is just ill-advised.
Good point. Now, so 99.9% of uncertainty? Are you truly sure on this one?
OK, what is the 99.9% you are sure about on the subject?
I won't make the claim that a superior intelligence exist as a total fact. But as I have read sources I can see it is possible. No, not sources that prove a certain existence. However, using logic scientific fact it to me there is possibilit of it.
Even though I am not a christian I have read highly educated christians logic and premises that are in line with science. To me the difference is that atheists in some cases choose the logic that suits their views.
As much as I have tried to agree with atheists logic regarding design, I just can't go along with accepting that design in nature cannot have a design in a motor in a car has to have a human designer. As much as I have read and read trying to agree with that logic, to me it is simple selective logic.
Do you think scientists are not dishonest? Do you think they would not block some view of theory the scientific community does not like? Heck they do. They are just as emotional as anybody else.
I have seen debates between theists and atheist scientists and I must say I have seen the atheists use so many fallacies to get the crowds to react to emotions responses.
Both sides have their extremists that appeal to the emotions of the masses to prove their points. I am not trying to prove the existences of a god, diety, higher intelligent being because I do not feel such possible being as part of my life. However, I see both side talking as if they got the complete truth. Many atheists as much as they deny it also do use a lot of faith in their views. Take care.
I guess the other complementary question would be, "Why do theists think they can talk me out of disbelief"? Do they really think that knocking on my door Saturday morning is going to get me to go to church on Sunday?
Theists have no interest in reason and logic. Atheists have no interest in putting your entire life in a the hands of faith.
Why does it always have to be "us vs. them"? Why can't people live their life and not be concerned with who believes and who doesn't believe?
If being Christian makes you be a better person because of faith in scripture...Great! If being atheist makes you a better person because you believe in reason and logic as it applies to relationships...Great!
To me what they do is not different that let us say politics. People tend to this urge to tell others what they believe, what they think is better for others to do and/or believe.
Do you not discuss politics? I tend to believe you do. Do you truly 100% discuss politics to simply share your views? When you do so, is that part of you hoping the other changes his mind and agrees with you?
To me this thing of asking people to keep their views to themselves is not possible because EVERBODY in some form do express their views with others in so many other areas. To me religion is no different than any other philosophical view that people may usually share with others. Take care.
true atheists dont do that. ex christians who have lost their faith like to take a few with them when they go down.
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