When will Atheism become mainstream. Not IF, but WHEN.

[transmogrifier]

Originally Posted by AREQUIPA

That may be true, but in fact there is a much better alternative to religion and that is that an afterlife is open to all and no one religious authority has the monopoly on entry tickets.

Thats not an alternative to religion, that's religion. Maybe you mean an alternative to "organized" religion.

'

In your face' is merely the annoying tendency of atheists to not shut up and go away as the religious would prefer. We name -call and ridicule no more than the believers do. 'Pondslime', 'Nihilist', 'Believe in nothing', 'miserable empty lives', 'believe in eugenics', 'have no morals'. Need I go on?

I guess that means your taking the fight fire with fire approach. That doesnt work, it just burns the house down quicker.
Its disappointing that wallowing in the mud is the prefered method of debate.

We are not going to shut up and go away. We are going to speak out, in your face, and if we can learn to do that in a cheerful and amusing way, that would be all the better.

Amen to cheerful and amusing part, still don't see what "in your face" accomplishes.

We are going to go on showing that religion is nonsense, its adherents are either deluded or exploitative parasites and its claims are laughable.

What your talking about is the equivelant of teaching a pig to sing. All your doing is wasting your time and annoying the pig.

If the recent figures are reliable, this is not so much attracting a bad rap but throwing off the one that snarling, malicious intolerant religion has imposed on us for decades if not centuries.

And your going to do this by being snarling, malicious and intolerant? Genius, your going to be exactly what you hate.
I have known many people in my life that have "found God" and turned their lives around and become pillars of the community.I have yet to meet even one person that has found there is no God and done the same.
The people that give religion, and atheism, a bad name will always be the same bitter,intolerant, self righteous people they have always been, god or no god.

[transmogrifier]

Originally Posted by mordant

This is quite true. I recognize that when I was a Christian I really wanted at least the good bits to be true. Who wouldn't want the most powerful being in the universe in your corner when that being is alleged to be perfectly loving and caring?

I came to realize though that an afterlife would be mere icing on the cake were it not needed as a place to defer all the closure, justice, and comprehensibility you don't get in this life. That is its real purpose, as an ultimate safety valve for the fact that most of the promised benefits of living righteously -- answered prayer, healing, wisdom, protection, prosperity, and many others -- are no-shows. The usual circumlocutions -- blaming the victim, hand waving platitudes about god's ways being beyond understanding and mysterious and ineffable and just trust him anyway, etc -- only go so far. But if you can rationalize that by and by every tear shall be wiped from your eyes, you will never lack for anything, and will finally get that endless feast of happiness and contentment that is so elusive in this life, you can put up with alot. It gives the believer something to look forward to.

This is exactly why religion will ALWAYS be a popular and important part of our culture.

While unbelievers lack that arguable advantage as a selling proposition, I don't think that religion is so compelling a proposition that it will never become the exception rather than the rule.

I completely and totally disagree with this. I think religion will always be a mainstay of every culture.
For the very reasons you mentioned earlier.

I just see it taking a long time, perhaps a thousand years or so. Of course many scenarios could play out, there could be regressions or setbacks for any number of reasons, but I see god needing gaps in knowledge to exist and those gaps are becoming slim pickings indeed.

I think you mean the opposite of what you said in the highlighted sentence.

I don't see us ever conclusively figuring out some things ... the origin of the universe, for instance ... but even that has to bow to reason at some point. People have too much info at their disposal, are becoming too educated, and society is becoming far too inclusive and welcoming to diversity.

Their is plenty of information at our disposal problem is theirs even more misinformation available than that.
As far as people becoming more educated, education and intelligence are two TOTALLY different animals.(created by god,of course) Like it or not,religious people are some of the most educated people on the planet.
Society is anything but inclusive and diversity is absolutely not tolerated. Its probably more divided now than it has been at in point in my life time.
Everybody has gotten militant about everything. No one is allowed to have an opinion without some jackass shouting them down.

I see religion dying a long, slow, agonizing but inevitable death over the next 40 or so generations.

You can hope. I see the pendulum swinging back the other direction and another crusade becoming all the rage.

Check with me on it in 3013, we'll have a beer and talk about the bad old days of 2013 ;-)

deal

[TRANSPONDER]

Originally Posted by transmogrifier

Thats not an alternative to religion, that's religion. Maybe you mean an alternative to "organized" religion.

'I guess that means your taking the fight fire with fire approach. That doesnt work, it just burns the house down quicker.
Its disappointing that wallowing in the mud is the prefered method of debate.

Amen to cheerful and amusing part, still don't see what "in your face" accomplishes.
What your talking about is the equivelant of teaching a pig to sing. All your doing is wasting your time and annoying the pig.

And your going to do this by being snarling, malicious and intolerant? Genius, your going to be exactly what you hate.
I have known many people in my life that have "found God" and turned their lives around and become pillars of the community.I have yet to meet even one person that has found there is no God and done the same.
The people that give religion, and atheism, a bad name will always be the same bitter,intolerant, self righteous people they have always been, god or no god.

Well, I can see that you are somehow indulging in telling yourself that we are putting ourselves out of business, discrediting ourselves and putting everybody off with our methods.

Just keep telling yourself that. It's not hurting us in the least.