Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Not exactly. Jesus said He was the only way to the Father. Unless you believe (in your heart) in the work He did, you will not be right with God. From a human standpoint, it appears some (most?) people are good. But, we all have evil in our heart, to a certain extent. None of us is truly good. Jesus, who was, bridges the gap between us and God.
How does one believe with your heart? It is a pump and has no mental or deductive capacity. What work did Jesus do? The bible infers the Father is perfect not Jesus.
People are inherently good if they have been brought up right. I think you are simply regurgitating standard xian talking points heard from the pulpit. You have not actually addressed the OP.
Why does it seem that god belief actually makes no difference in daily life? You can die in a car accident, you can get a terminal disease and many other things that are pretty much the same as random chance and bad luck.
The mere fact that we have the ability to do harm to others or animals is called the human condition and there are no real philosophical answers as to why w/o appeal to magic that never works.
How does one believe with your heart? It is a pump and has no mental or deductive capacity. What work did Jesus do? The bible infers the Father is perfect not Jesus.
People are inherently good if they have been brought up right. I think you are simply regurgitating standard xian talking points heard from the pulpit. You have not actually addressed the OP.
Why does it seem that god belief actually makes no difference in daily life? You can die in a car accident, you can get a terminal disease and many other things that are pretty much the same as random chance and bad luck.
The mere fact that we have the ability to do harm to others or animals is called the human condition and there are no real philosophical answers as to why w/o appeal to magic that never works.
By "believe in your heart", I mean in your soul, or your spirit, to the point that is changes your life.
As to your question about why Christians suffer like everyone else, that goes back to my first post. In this world, we all suffer the consequences of a sin-infested, broken world.
Because of sin (in general), there is suffering and death in the world.
What gets me about statements like this is what happens when you ask most Christians what they mean by "sin."
Rarely will you hear "sin" described as murder, rape, pedophilia, domestic violence, theft, etc.
Instead, you're likely to get a treatise on the "wrongness" of homosexuality or how adultery is destroying the nuclear family (which isn't altogether wrong, mind you). Then there's the lectures on sexual promiscuity and fornication, abortion, birth control being available at schools, and prayer being taken out of the classrooms.
In fact, 90% or more of the "sins" Christians seem to concern themselves with is sexual sin and little else. Well, unless that sexual sin is pedophilia in which case the church forks over hundreds of millions of dollars to buy out victims and keep priests from being criminally charged ... but hey, what can you do.
I'm certainly not expecting religion to prioritize itself any time soon.
So yeah, next time something bad happens to you, just remember: It happened because of the gay couple down the street, or the college couple co-habitating before marriage, or your boss cheating on his wife with the secretary. Yes, YOU deserve to be punished for their sexual crimes.
What gets me about statements like this is what happens when you ask most Christians what they mean by "sin."
Rarely will you hear "sin" described as murder, rape, pedophilia, domestic violence, theft, etc.
Instead, you're likely to get a treatise on the "wrongness" of homosexuality or how adultery is destroying the nuclear family (which isn't altogether wrong, mind you). Then there's the lectures on sexual promiscuity and fornication, abortion, birth control being available at schools, and prayer being taken out of the classrooms.
In fact, 90% or more of the "sins" Christians seem to concern themselves with is sexual sin and little else. Well, unless that sexual sin is pedophilia in which case the church forks over hundreds of millions of dollars to buy out victims and keep priests from being criminally charged ... but hey, what can you do.
I'm certainly not expecting religion to prioritize itself any time soon.
So yeah, next time something bad happens to you, just remember: It happened because of the gay couple down the street, or the college couple co-habitating before marriage, or your boss cheating on his wife with the secretary. Yes, YOU deserve to be punished for their sexual crimes.
It has nothing to do with individual sins, but rather the "taint" of sin on our world.
It has nothing to do with individual sins, but rather the "taint" of sin on our world.
But how did this "taint" get here?
Oh, right ... according to Christian belief, God deliberately made a flawed species (humanity) and placed them in a garden along with a fruit they weren't supposed to eat ... knowing full well that they would eat it.
And when they do eat it, God pretends that he had no idea that Adam and Eve were going to eat that fruit, throws a tantrum, and even lashes out at the poor serpent who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Once giving birth hurt sufficiently enough and once getting food became a pain in the arse and once the poor serpent lost its feet and once everyone was booted from paradise and inflicted with death, God decides that it isn't enough to kick around Adam, Eve, and the serpent. Nope ... he decides he's going kick around every human everywhere, especially those that haven't even been born.
All this because of the greatest set-up in universal history, a big trap that humanity couldn't have avoided even if Adam and Eve knew it existed (which they did).
And, despite it all, Christians still think their God is just and fair.
Oh, right ... according to Christian belief, God deliberately made a flawed species (humanity) and placed them in a garden along with a fruit they weren't supposed to eat ... knowing full well that they would eat it.
And when they do eat it, God pretends that he had no idea that Adam and Eve were going to eat that fruit, throws a tantrum, and even lashes out at the poor serpent who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Once giving birth hurt sufficiently enough and once getting food became a pain in the arse and once the poor serpent lost its feet and once everyone was booted from paradise and inflicted with death, God decides that it isn't enough to kick around Adam, Eve, and the serpent. Nope ... he decides he's going kick around every human everywhere, especially those that haven't even been born.
All this because of the greatest set-up in universal history, a big trap that humanity couldn't have avoided even if Adam and Eve knew it existed (which they did).
And, despite it all, Christians still think their God is just and fair.
No, we believe God created us with free will. I'd love to know what you think would have been better.
It has nothing to do with individual sins, but rather the "taint" of sin on our world.
Which, again, an omniscient god would know all about before creation even commenced. Hence, if god is omniscient he knew from before the dawn of the universe that humans would be born into sin because of the actions of Adam and Eve (which he also would have known about beforehand) and that billions of souls would be consigned to eternal torment.
Which, again, an omniscient god would know all about before creation even commenced. Hence, if god is omniscient he knew from before the dawn of the universe that humans would be born into sin because of the actions of Adam and Eve (which he also would have known about beforehand) and that billions of souls would be consigned to eternal torment.
Therefore, god is either
1. Not omniscient.
2. Quite the jerk.
Or maybe the Creator of the universe is beyond our understanding.
No, we believe God created us with free will. I'd love to know what you think would have been better.
I really don't think many Christians truly comprehend what it means to be omniscient.
At any rate, here's what I see as an example of penultimate irony ...
Christians are always talking about free will. Their belief is that God didn't want robots, that we're supposed to choose God without any coersion.
Except God already made us a bunch of robots through original sin. Yeah, that's right ... we can't HELP but sin. And while, yes, we can choose whether to do good or evil, Christians believe that we are all sinners, and we are ALWAYS sinners. Ergo, even when we're doing good, we're still bad people at heart and there is no avoiding sin.
So that pretty much eradicates any notion of free will.
In answer to your question: If God was going to create us as robots in one fashion or another, then he may as well have made us into good little God-loving robots since that, at least, would remove any need for eternal torture and damnation, yes?
Last edited by Shirina; 10-12-2013 at 11:22 AM..
Reason: Typo
Or maybe the Creator of the universe is beyond our understanding.
This is the most phenomenal cop-out that can be foisted upon those engaged in a religious debate.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
