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No....nature is not responsible. The laws of logic are not dependent upon nature...as they would cease to exist if the universe ceased to exist.
Yes, actually, nature CAN be responsible. It's quite as simple as when a Christian says "it's just God's nature."
The laws of logic are at least dependent upon their own nature/substance... that is what you were trying to say yourself: that the laws of logic have a nature which makes them require a Vishnu.
That is simply your own conjecture, we know nothing absolutely about the real natures of the laws of logic. Other than that they are sometimes useful, nice, and pretty... much like science.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
Unicorns and pixies exist in your world, right? I mean if you can just decide to live by a different method of logic...
The Agnostic Wisdom view towards logic is the better vision because logic(s) is a human construct much like religion, personal believes, and science.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
The law of identity is true whether or not human beings exist.
Think of it in these lesser vision Christian terms: The law of identity could be true whether or not there was a Heaven. The law of identity would be true in Hell, otherwise suffering might become Pleasure, yet Hell is often defined as the absence of God. Therefore, the law of identity doesn't need YHWH, the one who claims to be the real Vishnu.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
Fuzzy logic my work in electronics, but it irrelevant when describing logical absolutes such as the law of identity or excluded middle in the real world. Im guessing that wont matter to you though...because you don't really seem to want to address the real issue.
fuzzy logic can work perfectly in describing logical absolutes. Is electronics not an absolute realm? Do not small wave-particles work from probabilities for whether they act as particles or waves? Electronics is more the real world than the parables in religion.
What is the real issue Vizio? That your God's Vishnu character doesn't require faith?
Non-believers like you always deny the greater vision of Agnosticism without deeply understanding the Love of Wisdom with an open heart. <3
fuzzy logic can work perfectly in describing logical absolutes. Is electronics not an absolute realm? Do not small wave-particles work from probabilities for whether they act as particles or waves? Electronics is more the real world than the parables in religion.
Quantum computers just now coming into reality dispense with zero / one, on / off "bits" in favor of "qubits" which can be on, off, or anything in between. Increasingly we find that "real world" assumptions, while adequate for everyday use, don't really reflect the utter lack of black-and-white binary truth at the very ground of existence. Ultimately, everything is just probabilities.
Fuzzy logic my work in electronics, but it irrelevant when describing logical absolutes such as the law of identity or excluded middle in the real world.
Yep, different systems of logic and math are useful in different situations. They're tools created by man to solve problems, not absolutes handed down from on high.
Fuzzy logic my work in electronics, but it irrelevant when describing logical absolutes such as the law of identity or excluded middle in the real world. Im guessing that wont matter to you though...because you don't really seem to want to address the real issue.
On the contrary, I am addressing the real issue. What you are describing as absolute logical laws, are axioms, and as such they can neither be proven true or false, because they are assumptions necessary for the given logical framework. It is impossible to use classical logic to prove or disprove its own axioms. The fact that we have numerous logical frameworks that use different axioms, ad arrive at different but self consistent conclusions is a pretty good indicator that they are not absolute in any meaningful sense of the word.
Unless you can prove these axioms, which being axioms, is impossible you cannot point to their absolute immutable truth as proof of anything, logically speaking. You are starting from a false premise and then getting huffy when other people point out that you have started from a false premise. In the words of Wolfgang Pauli, "It is not even wrong!"
On the contrary, I am addressing the real issue. What you are describing as absolute logical laws, are axioms, and as such they can neither be proven true or false, because they are assumptions necessary for the given logical framework. It is impossible to use classical logic to prove or disprove its own axioms. The fact that we have numerous logical frameworks that use different axioms, ad arrive at different but self consistent conclusions is a pretty good indicator that they are not absolute in any meaningful sense of the word.
Unless you can prove these axioms, which being axioms, is impossible you cannot point to their absolute immutable truth as proof of anything, logically speaking. You are starting from a false premise and then getting huffy when other people point out that you have started from a false premise. In the words of Wolfgang Pauli, "It is not even wrong!"
-NoCapo
I am Vizio. I am not NoCapo. That is a fact. There...it's proven.
I am Vizio. I am not NoCapo. That is a fact. There...it's proven.
Oh, Viz! If that is the extent of your understanding of logic and epistemology, you should stick to preaching. Either educate yourself about arguments you are trying to make, or stick to what you know. As is you are just making a fool of yourself, and quite frankly you are so earnest about it, it isn't even amusing.
I am no logician nor a philosopher, but I can do better than that. Surely you can as well...
-NoCapo
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