Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
What Christians call morality is not morality at all...Blindly following the rules of an authority figure (god) is the farthest thing from morality that I can imagine.
The point is this. Yahweh was a construction of humans rather than humans being a construction of Yahweh. This conclusion flows from the Yahweh being presented in the Biblical accounts demonstrating the entire array of human failings. Yahweh is a jealous sort...no false gods before him or else. Yahweh is a vengeful sort, frequently striking down apostates. Yahweh plays favorites....the Chosen People. Yahweh likes to jerk people around, as Yahweh did with Abraham nearly having to slay his own son to please Yahweh, and the entire saga of Job where the poor sucker who is endlessly devoted to Yahweh, gets treated like dirt just so Yahweh can make a point to Satan. Yahweh is indiscriminate in its justice, such as the slaughter of all the first born sons of Egypt or direct instructions to kill women and children of the Hebrews enemies. Yahweh is petty and bureaucratic, as evidenced by all the supposed laws regarding how to dress and what to eat and so forth.
The point is not that Yahweh is immoral, it is that the biblical Yahweh is very, very mortal, demonstrating the same sort of immoral behavior commonly found in humans. Humans designed Yahweh and they made it in their own image, all the typical flaws included.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
So what? Vengeance is wrong? How would you know? As I said before your statement about him being immoral means about as much as "blue sleeps faster than Tuesday" if you can't actually define what morality is and how you know what is moral. Your statements are completely nonsensical.
You're begging the question--assuming what you know to be morality.
It is very telling that you do not consider the human psychological weaknesses of YHWH to be of concern. There is no way God would have those weaknesses. Men assigned them and responsibility for their own savagery and barbarity creating a fearful and evil God. That you don't see the relevance of that says volumes about the corrupt dogma you follow. Any pretense that there could be anything MORAL about such beliefs is absurd.
I don't judge god, because there is no proof of a god. I judge people who base their morality on a book, which has been shown to have immorality IMO.
EVERYONE has a different standard of morality. Some believe that killing an ant is immoral, some don't. Some believe that killing is always immoral. Some make exceptions. For every moral "absolute" there is someone that disagrees. Everyones morality is subjective.
You keep speaking of this "morality" you have. Please tell me your source for it. Can you? I'm guessing you can't...just like almost every other person that claims a moral superiority over Christianity. I've seen a few people tell me that it's based on society, or biology...but that would be a worthless morality--as it would only be helpful to use in judging someone with the exact same society and biology. Since we're all unique....it's worthless.
You keep speaking of this "morality" you have. Please tell me your source for it. Can you? I'm guessing you can't...just like almost every other person that claims a moral superiority over Christianity. I've seen a few people tell me that it's based on society, or biology...but that would be a worthless morality--as it would only be helpful to use in judging someone with the exact same society and biology. Since we're all unique....it's worthless.
Vizio, would you please be so good as to respond to my post #94.
I answered this question there.
Thank you.
Thanks June7th for your valiant attempt to clean up this thread this morning.
Unfortunately, despite your efforts I am still finding the thread difficult to follow due to one member doing everything in his power to disrupt and derail the thread. For the first time ever I have had to use the ignore feature just to make it possible to follow my own thread.
Nice to see you think you've got a mod in your hip pocket. I would also thank the mods for fairness in recognizing that I'm responding to the OP, and you are unwilling to answer the question.
You're the OP, right? I'm directly responding to your original post, and the original thought presented on it. If your inability to address that leads it away from your intended path, I'm sorry.
Quote:
Vizio I answered this question for you in post #31.
You say your source of morality is you. That's wonderful. "You" gives you no authority over me or anyone else. Sam Harris can't use that standard, either. Your argument is moot.
Quote:
What is morality? How do I determine it?
I base my moral code on what feels right and comfortable and /or what makes me feel happy
or feels wrong or uncomfortable or unhappy.
I use empathy to question whether I would want to be treated one way or another and use that as a guide.
If I felt uncomfortable being treated in a particular way (for example cruelly or being lied to) I would not do that to others.
I think moral code varies from person to person and that goes for religious people too. They pick and choose what is right for them. So morality for Christians is not definitive either.
But ok lets get down to the nitty gritty. Lets see if we can come up with a list and see if we can agree on some basics. I will try to outline as best as possible what I believe to be right and wrong, many of these are as previously mentioned.
Moral or right:
Fidelity
Kindness
Honesty
Trustworthiness
Respect for others
Empathy for others
Tolerance of differences.
Immoral or wrong:
Infidelity
Cruelty
Lying
Violence
Stealing
Rape.
Bigotry. Intolerance of differences including: religious intolerance of other religions and intolerance of people different from yourself such as mistreatment of homosexuality.
Slavery
Hypocrisy
Subjugation of women
Genital mutilation
Pedophilia
Can we both agree on this list?
I would appreciate an actual answer - yes or no?
Lets assume for a moment that we agree on at least most of the list and that I have told you I don't believe in god and that my morality stems from empathy for other people and what I feel is right. Can you now accept that belief in god is unnecessary and in fact irrelevant to being a moral person?
How did you compile this list? What source told you these things were wrong?
You keep speaking of this "morality" you have. Please tell me your source for it. Can you? I'm guessing you can't...just like almost every other person that claims a moral superiority over Christianity. I've seen a few people tell me that it's based on society, or biology...but that would be a worthless morality--as it would only be helpful to use in judging someone with the exact same society and biology. Since we're all unique....it's worthless.
It's become increasingly plain that you don't bother reading peoples' responses. You continue to ask your inane questions and many, many people have given you thoughtful, honest responses.
Which you ignore.
Do you really think that's helping your cause?
Your god is the poster boy for immorality and your continual attempts to deflect and divert from that TRUTH has progressed beyond sophomoric, beyond laughable, beyond farcical, and well into pitiable.
You keep speaking of this "morality" you have. Please tell me your source for it. Can you? I'm guessing you can't...just like almost every other person that claims a moral superiority over Christianity. I've seen a few people tell me that it's based on society, or biology...but that would be a worthless morality--as it would only be helpful to use in judging someone with the exact same society and biology. Since we're all unique....it's worthless.
So, tell me, have you ever killed a disobedient child?...Have you ever killed a person that you saw working on the sabbath? Do you beat your slaves?...Did you follow god's laws when you sold your daughter into slavery?....Probably not, as Christians tend to pick and choose god's laws that they follow and ignore the ones they do not like, but still insist that morality comes from god...That is the definition of a hypocrite.
So, tell me, have you ever killed a disobedient child?...Have you ever killed a person that you saw working on the sabbath? Do you beat your slaves?...Did you follow god's laws when you sold your daughter into slavery?....Probably not, as Christians tend to pick and choose god's laws that they follow and ignore the ones they do not like, but still insist that morality comes from god...
That's irrelevant. Please try to stay on topic.
As I've pointed out, what actions a person has done is irrelevant if you have no authority to say what is right and wrong. What is your source of morality?
Religion and various differing god concepts is, perhaps, the most divisive component in human relations. Ergo, a belief in God is antithetical to unity.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
