Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Just as I suspected all along. The sacred circle kind of gave you away. I didn't know what group you were associated with though. They are much the same. You didn't fool me for a second.
You know, there were religions before Christianity, but there was no one named Satan until Christianity came along. Most so called Satanists called themselves this as a reaction to Christianity. Are their evil people and evil cults? Yes, sure.
But there were a lot who called themselves Satanists just as a form of protest. How could they have said the Lord's Prayer backwards when there was no Lord's Prayer?
So, just because Crowley called himself the Beast does not mean he was. Like Anton Levay, he seemed to enjoy shocking the polite society of the day.
About the Masons, their numbers are dwindling now, but there are those other groups that heads of state seem to join when they are young: Skull and Bones, and some now are purported to be members of the Bohemian Grove in California.
I am not sure that a democracy is well supported by secret societies.
There was a time (perhaps still) when judges were mostly Masons and most or at least half of our presidents. I remember a fellow who married a terrible woman and wanted a divorce. She got a high powered attorney. He was approached by a friend who told him to join the Masons and he would be sure to get a judge who will let him off easy.
Now, this may have been just because the woman was out to take him, but it is not my idea of how a democracy should function. Call me naive. Charlie Manson said he had been apprehended for many crimes, but when he got before the judge he would flash some Masonic signals(that he learned while in prison) and the judge would let him off.
I think there was a guy, Steven or Stephen Knight, who wrote a book that gave some of the signs by which fellow Masons knew each other. I heard the author died mysteriously.
There is that Masonic banker in Italy who handled Vatican money and screwed up. He was found hanging under a bridge. The way he was hanging was in a Masonic oath that this is the way I will die if I betray . . . . .yada yada yada.
From what I have heard, the Masons at lower levels are a very good organization. But if you 'prove' yourself and progress upwards you get sort of groomed and gradually learn more inside information.
Those who are just good ol' boys stay at the bottom rungs.
Now, they may be an idealistic group. It may be that ultimately a democracy cannot stand on its own and a strong organisation with common beliefs and values may be needed at the core. Maybe the world that most citizens believe they live in is a sham.
But I don't like secrets or oaths, especially when death is the penalty for divulging secrets.
There are too many instances in which government and peculliar societies overlap. Look at the Nazis and SS rites.
Then there are those who believe the CIA has facist impulses. Kennedy tried to do away with the CIA and look what happened to him.
If judges are Masons and heads of government are Masons, can they just imprison a citizen? Make him dissappear? If a president can be killed and our government covers that up and so many people must know of this 'secret' and not let it out - are any of us safe?
No, for whatever reason, I just don't think any secret society has a place in a democracy. I don't care if it is secular or calles itself a religion.
Hi Aaron,
I just wanted to clarify something.....I already said it, but just to make it clear.
Not all who do not serve God are evil.
But the door is open to receive it, and it comes in many, many deceptive forms.
Some examples of things that come from the Devil:
Depression
Suicidal tendencies
Hatred
Confusion (this is his weapon of choice, no doubt)
Pornography, alcoholism, drug addiction, and any other vice that destroys
Infidelity, gambling, murder, promiscuity, self-loathing, etc. etc.
.............just to name a few.
Anything that is unclean or destructive and not of God's holiness.
agreed.
Quote:
Well, you may be right about that, I don't know. In my personal experience with them, although they didn't claim to serve Satan, they actually did. My thoughts were that maybe they just needed to hear the truth of God's Word, until I was proven differently. But, that's just me. I always see the good, or try to anyway. Sometimes the good is just not there.
so again, i will not try to agree with or refute your experience. i can certainly not tell you that you were wrong, and that they were not actually worshipping demons, because i was not there. what i am talking about is the fact that every wiccan i have ever met, and i was well acquainted with some of them, did not even acknowledge the existence of devils and demons. there is no satan to most of them. so, my question is, what do you think that they are the doing worshipping him?
Quote:
There will be plenty of "good" people who don't know Jesus Christ as their Savior on judgement day. Unfortunately, their works will not save them.
again, true. not contested. but that is not the issue. we are not talking about the idea that wiccans are devil-worshippers because they don't believe in Christ. we are talking about the idea that they are being accused of actually, literally worshipping (paying tribute, respect, adoration to) satan. so again, barring your apparently rare experiences, they are not wiccans. same with those that swear up and down that they've seen mormons sacrificing babies in baal's name.
even the heathen nations will be saved. there are wiccans among the heathen nation (i am pretty sure that there are christians among the heathen nation, especially after reading the misguided, hate-filled posts on these forums), and many of them are charitable, loving, honest, societally respectful brothers and sisters of ours.
Quote:
I agree with this. Claims of being a Christian do not make it so. Hate, slander and generally stirring up trouble is not of God.
in short, i agree with the majority of your beliefs. i truly believe that even nice-hearted wiccans must accept Christ in order to be saved. but again, that is not the issue at hand. the issue is knowingly opposing Christ, of worshipping His worst enemy, the devil. and that is a completely different idea than just being a stumbling block to the Lord because you laughed in the face of His missionaries when they came to your door.
Matthew 6:24 " No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.
Romans 16:17 Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them.
The Mormon church is far from God. Temples, Aprons, sacred Underwear, secrecy, Presidents, Headquarters, Mason, Planet Kolob, Doctrine and Covenants, Temple marriage, Images, Angel worship, pentagrams, Joseph Smith, Gods, Mormon, latter day saints, church, are all words contrary to what we would find in scripture. Joseph Smith played in the occult, that is why he was a Mason. No secret there. He intentionally fooled the masses into believing that the word of God was lost. Anyone who is dealing in satanism is not spiritual. He had no authority to announce the word of God is lost. Christ built His assymbly on the Rock and Hades would not prevail. How is it that grown men can turn away from the most simple instructions from the bible, "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel", and turn to foreign Gods.
Could it be: 1 Timothy 4:2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron,
LEVITICUS 10:1-2 "AND Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the Lord, which he commanded them not."
"And there went out fire from the Lord, and devoured them, and they died before the Lord."
Sons of Aaron tried their own way and were devoured by God.
DANIEL 3:15-18 "Now if ye be ready that at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, ye fall down and worship the image which I have made; well: but if ye worship not, ye shall be cast the same hour into the midst of a burning fiery furnace; and who is that God that shall deliver you out of my hands?"
"Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, answered and said to the king, O Nebuchadnezzar, we are not careful to answer thee in this matter." "If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king." "But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up."
The three young men knew that they needed to obey God's instructions, even if it meant death.
Mormons deny Christ.
Mormons have their own physical temple.
Mormons have their own priesthood.
Followers of Christ listen to God.
Followers of Christ have Christ as the temple.
Followers of Christ have Christ as their high priest.
Hebrews 8:1-2 Now [this is] the main point of the things we are saying: We have such a High Priest, who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, a Minister of the sanctuary and of the true tabernacle which the Lord erected, and not man.
Christ is our high priest. The Mormon's have their high priest. Two different high priests, two different faiths. Remember, only one faith, not two!
Followers of Christ have God.
1 Timothy 2:5 For [there is] one God and one Mediator between God and men, [the] Man Christ Jesus,
Besides one faith, scripture says there is one God and one mediator between God. The Mormon God says different. A different gospel, a different faith.
Joshua 24:15 "And if it seems evil to you to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that [were] on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."
Galatians 1:6-9, "I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."
wow, look at this, hiram thinking that i stopped ignoring him after our last interchange.
i generally don't respond to trolls, fanatics (though i will generally at least leave them with my true feelings before i leave), bigots, or telemarketers (especially when they call my cell phone!).
You know, there were religions before Christianity, but there was no one named Satan until Christianity came along. Most so called Satanists called themselves this as a reaction to Christianity. Are their evil people and evil cults? Yes, sure. Good afternoon to you goldengrain, if I may be permitted to take the time and explain to you in a very calm manner without all the hoopla and all this other misinformation about Freemasonry.
But there were a lot who called themselves Satanists just as a form of protest. How could they have said the Lord's Prayer backwards when there was no Lord's Prayer?
I quite agree the Lord's prayer was not in existence than in neither with Satanism.
So, just because Crowley called himself the Beast does not mean he was. Like Anton Levay, he seemed to enjoy shocking the polite society of the day.
This will be the only response I had to say to this and that is a doesn't deserve a response and can't be taken seriously.
About the Masons, their numbers are dwindling now, but there are those other groups that heads of state seem to join when they are young: Skull and Bones, and some now are purported to be members of the Bohemian Grove in California.
As for the group known as the skull and bones I can't speak for them because I know nothing about them and as for the members of the other group out of some Grove in California, I can't speak for them either, however I can't speak for the Masons and like with any organization with a membership it has a tendency to go up and down over periods of time, 10 years ago it was on the decline, however the numbers are starting to increase again so it's tough to tell what's going on, at present there is somewhere between 8 and 9 million members in the United States alone and starting to increase.
I am not sure that a democracy is well supported by secret societies.
No, a democracy is not supported by secret societies,a democracy is supported by the people.
There was a time (perhaps still) when judges were mostly Masons and most or at least half of our presidents. I remember a fellow who married a terrible woman and wanted a divorce. She got a high powered attorney. He was approached by a friend who told him to join the Masons and he would be sure to get a judge who will let him off easy.
I would have a tendency to believe that perhaps the judge felt sorry for the man under his present conditions rather than his affiliation with a particular organization. One thing that the Masonic fraternity never does, we do not go out recruiting members, if you want to become a member of the Masonic fraternity you have to ask us, we don't ask you.
Now, this may have been just because the woman was out to take him, but it is not my idea of how a democracy should function. Call me naive.
You are probably more correct about your perception of the woman. Nor is it the idea of of the Masonic fraternity as to how democracy should function and I wouldn't dare perceive you to be naïve.
Charlie Manson said he had been apprehended for many crimes, but when he got before the judge he would flash some Masonic signals(that he learned while in prison) and the judge would let him off.
I find this extremely hard to believe and more likely to be a part of Charlie Manson's imagination than anything else because even if the judge was a Mason, Charlie Manson would not have gotten off for any of his horrendous crimes.
I think there was a guy, Steven or Stephen Knight, who wrote a book that gave some of the signs by which fellow Masons knew each other. I heard the author died mysteriously.
That also is somebody's imagination, because you can go to any public library or any bookstore and pick up all the information that you want about the Masonic fraternity.
There is that Masonic banker in Italy who handled Vatican money and screwed up. He was found hanging under a bridge. The way he was hanging was in a Masonic oath that this is the way I will die if I betray . . . . .yada yada yada.
Now about this particular story, it had been determined that the individual in question was not and never had been a member of any Masonic fraternity and that the way he died had absolutely nothing to do with any Masonic ritual of any kind. That was merely journalistic sensationalism.
From what I have heard, the Masons at lower levels are a very good organization. But if you 'prove' yourself and progress upwards you get sort of groomed and gradually learn more inside information.
Well speaking as one of those so-called "groomed Masons" that have progressed upwards in the fraternity and probably know about as much as you'd want to know about the fraternity I can honestly say that the real secret about Freemasonry is that there are no secrets. Go to your local library or bookstore and you can read all about us.
Those who are just good ol' boys stay at the bottom rungs.
That's not true, it's just like any organization that you wish to belong to, you get out of it what you put into it. The Masonic fraternity is strictly a volunteer organization.
Now, they may be an idealistic group. It may be that ultimately a democracy cannot stand on its own and a strong organisation with common beliefs and values may be needed at the core. Maybe the world that most citizens believe they live in is a sham.
Well now I wouldn't say that has anything to do with Freemasonry, that's just an individual's opinion and that's what's great about this, if really entitled to it.
But I don't like secrets or oaths, especially when death is the penalty for divulging secrets.
I quite agree with you about secret oaths and penalties of death, however none of that is true within the Masonic fraternity.
There are too many instances in which government and peculliar societies overlap. Look at the Nazis and SS rites.
Then there are those who believe the CIA has facist impulses. Kennedy tried to do away with the CIA and look what happened to him.
During World War II one of the first organizations in Nazi Germany that was persecuted and that the Nazis were afraid of, was Freemasonry, why,
because Freemasons believe in freedom and that was the one thing that the Nazis were afraid of.
If judges are Masons and heads of government are Masons, can they just imprison a citizen? Make him dissappear? If a president can be killed and our government covers that up and so many people must know of this 'secret' and not let it out - are any of us safe?
Of all the Presidents in United States, only 13 of them were members of the Masonic fraternity, and the last one was Gerald Ford. As for judges, it's their choice as to whether they want to become a member of the Masonic fraternity or not and what they do when presiding as a judge, the Masonic fraternity has no influence over that. The fraternity of Freemasons has been around for quite a few hundred years, it is the oldest fraternal organization in the world and as we were organized to take over the world, don't you think we would've done it by now.
No, for whatever reason, I just don't think any secret society has a place in a democracy. I don't care if it is secular or calles itself a religion.
goldengrain, the Masonic fraternity is not a secret society nor are we a religion, we teach no dogma and if anything, we are a big believer in democracy and freedom and that is what scares fundamental Christianity, because we believe in treating everybody equally. In a Masonic Lodge you will find members of all different faiths and beliefs sitting side by side and working together as one body, we treat each other fairly and equally and with respect, the only person who cannot become a member of the Masonic fraternity is an atheist, because you have to have a belief in a deity to be a member of the Masonic fraternity.
goldengrain, I hope I have answered some of your questions and explain some things that make sense to you.
I'm no fan of Mormonism, but this just patently ridiculous.
Quote:
Mormons deny Christ.
Mormons have their own physical temple.
Mormons have their own priesthood.
Mormons most assuredly do believe in Christ - it is in every other word they speak and all over their churches.
Yup, they do build their temples and they have their priesthood. That has nothing to do with whether they believe in Christ. I've got no defense of most of their other beliefs, but then there are a lot of Christian sects that believe and do weird things. But it is a ridiculous slander to claim that deny Christ.
I would point out that so-called Prince Hall Masonry is not recognised as legitimate by mainstream Masonic Lodges.
Well, that's not quite right. My Grand Lodge recognizes Prince Hall Masonry as do numerous other states in the US and many, many foreign jurisdictions. It is an unfortunate fact that some US Grand Lodges do not recognize Prince Hall Masonry. Assuming this will develop into a swell of criticism of Masonry in general, I know of NO racial, ethnic, or religious restriction on membership in Freemasonry. For the several decades I've been a Freemason I've participated in membership ceremonies for men of every color, race and creed.
Well, that's not quite right. My Grand Lodge recognizes Prince Hall Masonry as do numerous other states in the US and many, many foreign jurisdictions. It is an unfortunate fact that some US Grand Lodges do not recognize Prince Hall Masonry. Assuming this will develop into a swell of criticism of Masonry in general, I know of NO racial, ethnic, or religious restriction on membership in Freemasonry. For the several decades I've been a Freemason I've participated in membership ceremonies for men of every color, race and creed.
windtimber, let me add to your post, here is a list of all of the different states that recognize Prince Hall Masons.
Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Connecticut, District of Columbia, Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Texas, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, Washington, Wisconsin, Wyoming,
wow, look at this, hiram thinking that i stopped ignoring him after our last interchange.
i generally don't respond to trolls, fanatics (though i will generally at least leave them with my true feelings before i leave), bigots, or telemarketers (especially when they call my cell phone!).
aaron out.
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God [is] living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Matthew 7:26 "But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand:
You know Hiram, it's real easy to sit there and talk about something of which you know nothing about. As for the sacred circle thread that I started, everyone who comes there is treated with respect
Quote:
regardless of what your religion or your belief may be
, everyone is equal, it's called respect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by esselcue
When I was married to a Lutheran (and his family) I recall their hatred of Masons and many other fraternal organizations and how they believed it was all Satanistic, yada yada yada. And yet I knew (and know) some members of Masons and my first high school "love" was in DeMolay. There is nothing evil at all in those organizations...but Christians are, as usual, fearful of what they do not know or understand or what might threaten what they believe is true. It's really sad in a way, that they are so quick to demonize and condemn people whom they do not know.
Wiccans are not devil worshipers. They worship Nature and the natural world...at least that's as close as I can explain it. There are always a few nuts in every religion or organization, including Christianity, but as PTsum says, it is best to ignore the irrational rants.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bideshi
It is required that you believe in a Supreme Being. An atheist cannot be a Mason unless he lies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptsum
goldengrain, the Masonic fraternity is not a secret society nor are we a religion, we teach no dogma and if anything, we are a big believer in democracy and freedom and that is what scares fundamental Christianity, because we believe in treating everybody equally. In a Masonic Lodge you will find members of all different faiths and beliefs sitting side by side and working together as one body, we treat each other fairly and equally and with respect, the only person who cannot become a member of the Masonic fraternity is an atheist, because you have to have a belief in a deity to be a member of the Masonic fraternity.
goldengrain, I hope I have answered some of your questions and explain some things that make sense to you.
Quote:
Tesaje I'm no fan of Mormonism, but this just patently ridiculous.
Yup, they do build their temples and they have their priesthood. That has nothing to do with whether they believe in Christ. I've got no defense of most of their other beliefs, but then there are a lot of Christian sects that believe and do weird things. But it is a ridiculous slander to claim that deny Christ.
I deny Christ - unbeliever that I am.
There seem to be experts here on Mormonism, witches, DeMolay. Nice that someone mentioned boy scouts, but I won't get into that.
Masons, going out of their way to defend sister groups. A little too defensive there Tesaje. Kind of gives you away. The outer circle of Mormonism, which by complete control believe they are actually worshiping Christ. The inner, which is made up of those who serve Satan, or Lucifer, the light bearer. This is the God of your inner sacred circle. But the lower degrees, or outer circle do not know this. But still they are worshiping that same God, the God of the underworld. That knowledge is kept from them, perhaps till they become easier controlled. They are all seeking the "secret knowledge" and are Masons, and such. Perhaps depending on "what" order or sect you belong to, Rosecrusians etc.
As for your bringing all religions together, except Christ of course, is for the benefit of your secret agenda of a one world religion, ruled under the antichrist as you call it. Everything you do parallels Christ, except opposite. Good and evil. Everything is done under the cloak of stealth and secrecy, denial. The christians who enjoy the sacred circle are not who they think they are.
You even have your ten commandments.The Georgia Guidestones
What does satanist Ozzy Osbourne have to say about Aliester Crowley.
lyrics
did you talk to the dead
You fooled all those people with magic
(Yeah)You waited on Satan's call
How did he fool the people with magic. Don't dare ask those so called christians in the sacred circle.
won't you ride my white horse?
it's symbolic of course
Symbolic of what? No one knows
Approaching a time that is classic
The new age
Here is another Masonic order for you, OTO, or Order of the Temple of the Orient, the one Aleister Crowley was in. Connect the dots, it is not so hard. Harry Hay, a member of this order wrote a book,"Radically Gay" explaining homosexuality, and homosexual sex magic rituals, etc. Freemason Crowley was the instrumental force in promoting the drug, and homosexual revolution in America, and the breaking down of the family. He detested God.
To learn more about the history of these secret organizations and how you are controlled please click here.
There seem to be experts here on Mormonism, witches, DeMolay. Nice that someone mentioned boy scouts, but I won't get into that.
Masons, going out of their way to defend sister groups. A little too defensive there Tesaje. Kind of gives you away. The outer circle of Mormonism, which by complete control believe they are actually worshiping Christ. The inner, which is made up of those who serve Satan, or Lucifer, the light bearer. This is the God of your inner sacred circle. But the lower degrees, or outer circle do not know this. But still they are worshiping that same God, the God of the underworld. That knowledge is kept from them, perhaps till they become easier controlled. They are all seeking the "secret knowledge" and are Masons, and such. Perhaps depending on "what" order or sect you belong to, Rosecrusians etc.
As for your bringing all religions together, except Christ of course, is for the benefit of your secret agenda of a one world religion, ruled under the antichrist as you call it. Everything you do parallels Christ, except opposite. Good and evil. Everything is done under the cloak of stealth and secrecy, denial. The christians who enjoy the sacred circle are not who they think they are.
You even have your ten commandments.The Georgia Guidestones
What does satanist Ozzy Osbourne have to say about Aliester Crowley.
lyrics
did you talk to the dead
You fooled all those people with magic
(Yeah)You waited on Satan's call
How did he fool the people with magic. Don't dare ask those so called christians in the sacred circle.
won't you ride my white horse?
it's symbolic of course
Symbolic of what? No one knows
Approaching a time that is classic
The new age
Here is another Masonic order for you, OTO, or Order of the Temple of the Orient, the one Aleister Crowley was in. Connect the dots, it is not so hard. Harry Hay, a member of this order wrote a book,"Radically Gay" explaining homosexuality, and homosexual sex magic rituals, etc. Freemason Crowley was the instrumental force in promoting the drug, and homosexual revolution in America, and the breaking down of the family. He detested God.
To learn more about the history of these secret organizations and how you are controlled please click here.
You know Hiram, you really might want to consider changing your user name. Did you know that Hiram Abiff and Hiram, King of Tyre were both Freemasons and that King Solomon was the first Grand Master of Masons and that the three of them were involved in building a Temple for God and that all of the workers involved in building the Temple were Freemasons of different degrees so I guess that would mean that God is a Freemason??? Just something to think about Hiram. Oh and by the way, it's all in the Bible..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Foundation on the sand
