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I don't believe in the immortal soul b/c the Bible teaches otherwise and therefore by extension don't believe in the existence of hell (as most who think of hell...fiery place of eternal torment). It's important to understand Sheol (in the Hebrew), Hades (in the Greek) and Gehenna. Hell as used in some Bible translations becomes muddled and confusing.
Nevertheless, 1 John 5:19 states, "We know that we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one." The wicked one is Satan and he influences worldly affairs.
Jesus in John 8:44 indicates "That one was a manslayer when he began and he did not stand fast in the truth." If one did not stand fast in the truth then intuitively at one point he was "in the truth" and thus God did not create Satan but this spirit creature became Satan.
One more thing when Satan was tempting Jesus one of the temptations was offering Jesus dominion over all the world powers. It's interesting that Jesus did not refute Satan's assertion that he could deliver on his offer.
So for me Satan exists, influences many aspects of "the world" and was not created as evil or as an opposer but became Satan.
The Bible itself indicates that perfection is relative and that only God is perfect in the absolute sense. So, can perfect angels "fall"? yes. Can perfect man "fall"? yes. The idea that perfect angels fall is not new. There is an old statute in Madrid Spain (a very Catholic country) which depicts Satan/Devil/Lucifer whatever as a beautiful but corrupt angel who was tossed out of the heavens.
How about this Metaphorically speaking?...
We know that we come from God, but the whole world is lying in the power of the flesh." The flesh is Adversary and it influences worldly affairs.
The Bible doesn't ever say Satan was once a good angel and became a bad angel. He was created to be an adversary.
That's exactly right the bible never mentioned that Satan was good. It would make sense that he was created just for that reason alone. God needed an adversary & Satan was chosen to be the scapegoat.
That's exactly right the bible never mentioned that Satan was good. It would make sense that he was created just for that reason alone. God needed an adversary & Satan was chosen to be the scapegoat.
One extreme example of what is going on today in media. Why the **** is the history and science channels opting out of real learning to show ancient alien and nonreality reality tv? profit is one variable but people actually take this garbage as fact. and so the the media industry continues to encourage the lies. And yet when mob mentality takes over a city and causes riots we go on to the march of a drum. I may be crazy but the collective is pretty primal if you ask me.
Just look at society at large. The willingness to give over to leadership that lies and oppresses. When in the military when I saw something that was wrong I had a backbone and stood up to those in authority. Of course my behavior can be deemed disobedient by those that have power. Or wish to have power over another. But none the less I brought the truth to light by my actions. I guess it is attributed to nature Alpha beta and gamma. Pack mentalities. Carnal psychology. These behaviors can be observed throughout society. But yet it is rarely even called out for what it is. Primal instincts. Religion has fought against this mostly. But unfortunately religious leaders fall inline to carnal behavior also. You will find it everywhere. I have even seen it in my own family. But how do we escape it?
Well, for starters you can turn off your TV if those shows bother you so much. What do you care if someone enjoys watching shows on ancient alien life?
Last edited by DewDropInn; 12-31-2014 at 09:48 AM..
Here is a possibility about Satan that no one has considered.
Satan was one of thirteen angels before he rebelled. In heaven, he (it) pretend to be God. He formed a circle, just like God, and tricked the other angels into worshiping him. Instead of loving the other angels, Satan attacked them. One of the angels went to God and complained that Satan was hurting them. Subsequently, God imprisoned Satan in the universe. Humans are collateral damage from Satan's rebellion. The universe was not created for humans, it was created to imprison Satan.
The Bible doesn't ever say Satan was once a good angel and became a bad angel. He was created to be an adversary.
Some have a hard time seeing this as referring to just an earthly king so they assume it's referring to Lucifer, Satan, who used to be Morning Star (like Jesus is Morning Star), no wonder Mormons think that they are brothers (Jesus and Satan)
Isa 14:12 How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!
Isa 14:13 You said in your heart, "I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain.
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High."
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Interesting, the verses above were talking about the King of Babylon. And the verses below, seem to be referring to a similar thing, but are talking about the King of Tyre.
Eze 28:13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone adorned you: ruby, topaz and emerald, chrysolite, onyx and jasper, sapphire, turquoise and beryl. Your settings and mountings were made of gold; on the day you were created they were prepared.
Eze 28:14 You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for so I ordained you. You were on the holy mount of God; you walked among the fiery stones.
Eze 28:15 You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created till wickedness was found in you.
Eze 28:16 Through your widespread trade you were filled with violence, and you sinned. So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God, and I expelled you, O guardian cherub, from among the fiery stones.
Eze 28:17 Your heart became proud on account of your beauty, and you corrupted your wisdom because of your splendor. So I threw you to the earth; I made a spectacle of you before kings.
(Rev 22:16 "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.")
I think that in the Old Testament, because people believed in different gods and mystical beings, Satan (as shown in Job when he came together with the rest of God's assembly to present himself before God's throne), was just one of those, And was "the good turned bad" one. (If you watch shows about the time of different gods (fiction), they were adversaries, like people are adversaries, they didn't like each other, but still coexisted). It sounds like that in the OT. They coexisted.
But in Christian beliefs, the Greek mythology had its influence and Satan became similar to Hades, King of Hades, in charge of the dead souls, in some pit, unpleasant fate for them. (And Zeus was the god of heaven)
And somewhere along the line, the philosophical nature of Satan being THE EVIL itself has been mixed in. So now Satan is all of the three things, interchangeably and a mix. (And God became the source of good itself and so they were opposing forces)
Last edited by LoveWisdom; 01-01-2015 at 03:36 AM..
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