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Except for those who contract HIV and must live with it the rest of their lives. And according to the CDC, that's a significant number of the homosexual population. What about the children of gay parents who are targeted and bullied mercilessly by their peers? I would consider them to be victims as well.
Now I suppose you will focus on the latter half of their statement, but that's like saying bullying is fine, you grow out of it. My point still stands.
Why do you not address lesbians and the fact they have the lowest incidence of STDs?
Nevermind. We know.
And who bullies those kids, jeffy?
I'll tell you: People like you. People just like you and your fundamentalist cohort.
It's too bad you possess neither the insight nor the moral fibre to understand and feel the warranted shame.
I'd love to see some hard statistics on it. From my understanding, places like The Netherlands, have big problems with it.
Again...is the presences of a "victim" the only reason we make some behavior legal or illegal?
And do you honestly think gay men remain monogamous?
I do not know that many but the ones I know best have been together since the 1980s and have lived as a couple the entire time I known them. If you think they are anything different from you or me then you are wrong. It is not that you oppose same sex marrige or even homosexuality that makes you appear to be a bigot but you question that do I honestly think gay men remain monogamous that makes you appear to be bigots. If you wish to use stats from the time when they could not be open in their relationships making it difficult to maintain a monogomous relationship then for that time you may be right but where and when they are able to be open and free about their relationships I have no reason to beleive that they are any more or any less faithful than hetrosexual men. So yes I honestly believe that and it appears you do not. Tough. Do you honestly believe that gay men living together in a long term relationship or in marriage are unable to remain monogamaous? Are religious people?
You are free to look up the stats for Portugal. They have reported a drop in crime, a drop in health costs and a drop in the number of people accessing the free and legal suport centres. Portugal also has legal same sex marriage so perhaps their stats are not reliable.
And yes, if there are innocent victims then as a society we do protect them or at least set up laws and regulations in attempt to do so. That is why it is illegal to abuse your dog but not your rose bush. Some of our laws are not to protect victims but to make an orderely society such as which side of the road to drive on or to obey traffic signs and signals.
Why do you not address lesbians and the fact they have the lowest incidence of STDs?
Nevermind. We know.
And who bullies those kids, jeffy?
I'll tell you: People like you. People just like you and your fundamentalist cohort.
It's too bad you possess neither the insight nor the moral fibre to understand and feel the warranted shame.
There you go again, labeling and grouping, the true sign of biogtry. Christians like me are called to love people so we don't bully. Are you do really believe that everyone under your fundamentalist umbrella acts the same?
One that hasn't been answered, though. Why do you not argue for sexual freedom for every other deviancy? Or every other non-sexual compulsion such as alcoholism or gambling?
I'm sorry if you feel that acting in a bigoted way toward Christians will erase feelings of mistreatment.
I am not familiar with the law that makes it illegal to be an alcholic. Is this a state law or is it nation wide? What do the people who go to Reno, Vegas or casinos do if gambling is not allowed? Or church bingos, I once won a metal garbage can at a church bingo, was it me or the church who was being deviant? Bondage is not illegal if both parties are in consent, being a furry is not illegal if both sides consent (first hear about this on CSI). What type of sexual deviancy are you referring to. ACcording to some posters here bestiality is still legal in some of the states so it cannot be that even though that tricky thing called consent is missing in that.
And both you and Jeff think that any opposition to your ideas is anti Christian. Do you speak for the Christians or are you speaking for your own particular brand of Christainity?
There you go again, labeling and grouping, the true sign of biogtry. Christians like me are called to love people so we don't bully. Are you do really believe that everyone under your fundamentalist umbrella acts the same?
Sort of like you lumped us with those who made threats to the baker and his family?
I do not know that many but the ones I know best have been together since the 1980s and have lived as a couple the entire time I known them. If you think they are anything different from you or me then you are wrong. It is not that you oppose same sex marrige or even homosexuality that makes you appear to be a bigot but you question that do I honestly think gay men remain monogamous that makes you appear to be bigots.
Right. So nevermind the statistics, as well as men that I have worked with in the past. The ones you know have been family men, so therefore all gay men are and I'm a bigot. gotcha.
When I was 18 years old I started working in a call center. It was common knowledge that they were "friendly" to the gay community and as a result there were a lot of gay men that worked there. In a place with 800 people, we had a fair representation of people that were gay as rank and file employees, as well as upper management. I can honestly say that many of them were very friendly, nice people. I became friends with many of them in the 8 years I worked there. But there were many of them that were very promiscous, and were not monogamous.
Quote:
If you wish to use stats from the time when they could not be open in their relationships making it difficult to maintain a monogomous relationship then for that time you may be right but where and when they are able to be open and free about their relationships I have no reason to beleive that they are any more or any less faithful than hetrosexual men. So yes I honestly believe that and it appears you do not. Tough.
I suppose time will tell, won't it?
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Do you honestly believe that gay men living together in a long term relationship or in marriage are unable to remain monogamaous? Are religious people?
Capable? Sure. Of course they are. Some are, and some will be monogamous. But statistics indicate that it's the exception, not the rule.
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You are free to look up the stats for Portugal. They have reported a drop in crime, a drop in health costs and a drop in the number of people accessing the free and legal suport centres. Portugal also has legal same sex marriage so perhaps their stats are not reliable.
And yes, if there are innocent victims then as a society we do protect them or at least set up laws and regulations in attempt to do so. That is why it is illegal to abuse your dog but not your rose bush. Some of our laws are not to protect victims but to make an orderely society such as which side of the road to drive on or to obey traffic signs and signals.
Wait...so it's not just about victims? But it's about an orderly society? Why should orderly society get in the way of someone's happiness?
I am not familiar with the law that makes it illegal to be an alcholic. Is this a state law or is it nation wide?
It wasn't illegal to be gay, either.
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What do the people who go to Reno, Vegas or casinos do if gambling is not allowed? Or church bingos, I once won a metal garbage can at a church bingo, was it me or the church who was being deviant?
I believe I referred to compulsive gambling. Do you believe we should not try to help compulsive gamblers?
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Bondage is not illegal if both parties are in consent, being a furry is not illegal if both sides consent (first hear about this on CSI). What type of sexual deviancy are you referring to. ACcording to some posters here bestiality is still legal in some of the states so it cannot be that even though that tricky thing called consent is missing in that.
And both you and Jeff think that any opposition to your ideas is anti Christian. Do you speak for the Christians or are you speaking for your own particular brand of Christainity?
Perhaps it's because Jeff and I are arguing from Biblical positions?
There you go again, labeling and grouping, the true sign of biogtry. Christians like me are called to love people so we don't bully. Are you do really believe that everyone under your fundamentalist umbrella acts the same?
Do some googling. It's not that difficult. The statistical proof shows that the homosexual lifestyle does result in higher rates of disease. Yes--people are injured by it. At the very least, you ought to be willing to legalize all drug use for adult use if you want to be consistent.
In any event, the question of victims does not change the fact that those folks feel every bit the same compulsion as you do. Why wouldn't you want them to just be happy? Look how mean-spirited you are!
Once again, Vizio, just because there are people tuning in that don't know that these arguments have been shown to be spurious and misdirection. You talk about "the homosexual lifestyle" in a way that can only be compared to "the promiscuous lifestyle" of many heterosexuals and the resulting std's are no different. The question remains as tw whether a committed same sex relationship has any victims and it is a question you continue to avoid because you know there are none.
The question of consent in the other practices you try to link to "homosexuality" should be obvious, but once again, there IS a victim/abuser element in those practices that is not present in a loving same sex relationship any more than in a loving heterosexual relationship.
Perhaps it's because Jeff and I are arguing from Biblical positions?
No, it's because you and Jeff argue from literal interpretations of biblical passages without reference to the Spirit or the fruit of the Spirit or the "new way of learning" that IS the "New Covenant."
Just to add, that is all about actual on the ground concern for the well-being of everyone in any situation, in this case, the desire for a fulfilling relationship with the person who "hangs the moon" for the individual we are considering in the abstract here.
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