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This is a matter of size and the limitations of the human eye. With the invention of electron microscopes scientists can observe molecules.
I have never seen a molecule, but accept their existence from credible sources: scientists. Scientific discoveries do not deal with the supernatural.
Also, the ability to see molecules does not favor any political group, religion or myth, it is a scientific fact that molecules exist.
Centuries ago people believed that diseases were caused by evil demons, but scientific research discovered that diseases are caused by viruses.
If god wanted his existence to be known, why does he make it so very difficult?
Gotta run out but wanted to at least answer quickly.
So because we didn't know about it before hand, does that mean it didn't exist?
Just because you have no proof that something exists doesn't make it not exist. Come on guys, this is basic.
Maybe science will discover a "spirit" in the near future. Who knows. For me, the more science discovers, the more it makes me see a creator in the ever increasing complexity of life as we know it.
Can it be both science and religion? i dont think so. Religion says the earth is about 6,000 years old. Science says its more like millions and millions. Dinosaur bones dont lie.
Stycotl--something I have never understood-You use the example of Moses and the Israelites [Jews].Christians read the Torah [The Bibles Old Testament} but yet you claim The Jews are hell bound because they dont Think Jesus is The Messiah. You use Jewish writings in your worship, but condemn them to hell for believing in those writings. Whats up with that? Just curious.
Lt. Dan, I do have respect for your comments, however I think you're off-topic with this thread and I would appreciate it if you would stay with the topic of this thread. No disrespect intended. Thank you
You know I think it would be interesting and I would really enjoy it if it were possible for all of us to be sitting within the same room and having this same discussion, I have found the majority of the comments and opinions here very intelligent and very enlightening not unlike the original group that this statement was posed to. It's refreshing to see that we can at least try to have a civil conversation on such a topic and still respect each other, gentlemen and ladies, I commend you for this, let's see if we can continue in the same manner.
Stycotl--something I have never understood-You use the example of Moses and the Israelites [Jews].Christians read the Torah [The Bibles Old Testament} but yet you claim The Jews are hell bound because they dont Think Jesus is The Messiah. You use Jewish writings in your worship, but condemn them to hell for believing in those writings. Whats up with that? Just curious.
and that is where the misconception is. we do not claim that the jews are going to hell. we don't claim that anyone is going to hell. mormon doctrine is that salavation or lack thereof is between the individual and God. we proselyte to teach. we go to church to find brotherhood in the Savior. but in the end, it is all personal.
i cannot even say that hitler is going to hell (though it would be considered a safe bet...) because i do not know what God knows. i cannot on any level condemn him or anyone else. God has said that the heathen nation will be judged with mercy. there are many, even among the israelites and even the christians themselves that will be considered as the heathen nations, those that did not know Christ. i cannot judge any of them, and were it to try, i would be more than guilty of the whol beam-before-the-mote deal.
that being said, i will reiterate that we feel it important to make people aware of the truth in this life. the more roads a person has open to them in this life, the better. the more knowledge possessed, the more educated the decisions.
mormons do not preach to the rest of the world because we are afraid for their souls. we preach because we feel the need to share the insight and peace that is available to those with the knowledge. the truth surely will set one free.
Can it be both science and religion? i dont think so. Religion says the earth is about 6,000 years old. Science says its more like millions and millions. Dinosaur bones dont lie.
all i will say to this is that there is still scientific evidence that goes both ways, and that there are still religious debates as to the exact meaning of the time periods referenced. so can it be both, i still believe so, though at this point it is only an educated guess.
Gotta run out but wanted to at least answer quickly.
So because we didn't know about it before hand, does that mean it didn't exist?
Just because you have no proof that something exists doesn't make it not exist. Come on guys, this is basic.
Maybe science will discover a "spirit" in the near future. Who knows. For me, the more science discovers, the more it makes me see a creator in the ever increasing complexity of life as we know it.
To each his own I guess...
Even in the late 1700s scientists had developed theories about the existence of atoms, based on scientific experiments which proved consistency in results. Many years later, as electron microscopes were invented the scientists could prove that atoms (and molecules) exist. Their discovery of molecules was not a coincidence, they knew what they were looking for.
In the case of god's existence, no scientific theories exist. There is no way to prove the existence of something which does not exist.
Scientists use specific terminology for things they discover. This helps the next generation of scientists to continue research.
Science declares its progress. Religion tries to hide its lack of facts and evidence with smoke screens and confusing language. Religion uses metaphors and figurative language which, it seems, is to intentionally confuse and create a smoke screen. Science has made vast progress over the centuries. Religion is still where it's been for centuries; at square one.
Scientists arrive at conclusions, but provide step-by-step reasons for their conclusions. Religion begins with the conclusion (god exists) without providing any guide to the process of arriving at the conclusion.
Several years ago two scientists claimed to have discovered "cold fission" which would have revolutionized nuclear energy. But, upon investigation by other scientists, the claims proved to be false. Religion has no system of "checks and balances".
A "spirit"? Is it physical? If so, how could it have eluded medical technology for decades?
One can see what one wants to see. Science shows us things the way they are. One can look at a flower and "see" god. One can also look at an AIDS virus and also "see" god. One can also look at his shoe and "see" a bowl of pudding.
and you believed these scientis, pull away from the phyical things we see around and dwell on the spiritual things..a person is either good or bad ..person as a body and a spirit ....evil spirits are real you dont belive because you dont see or to dumb to hear and know this
I say look around, look at your children, look at earth and the universe......then try and expalin something as simple as "love" tell me how and where it comes from. I have no doubt in my mind that a grand creator played in a role in it all. I understand the concepts os evolution, exanding universe, the big bang and so on, BUT there are just waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyy too many other apsects of life that cannot be explained and likely never will be explained by science for me to believe there is no creator.
Stycotl--something I have never understood-You use the example of Moses and the Israelites [Jews].Christians read the Torah [The Bibles Old Testament} but yet you claim The Jews are hell bound because they dont Think Jesus is The Messiah. You use Jewish writings in your worship, but condemn them to hell for believing in those writings. Whats up with that? Just curious.
First of all, I don't condemn anyone to hell; in fact, I don't even believe in hell. There is no place in the Bible that says that anyone will be going to "hell."
Now to answer your question from the perspective of Reformed Theology; we would say that the Old Testament is fully inspired by God, but that it is incomplete as much of the prophecy speaks of the yet-to-come Messiah. We believe that Jesus fulfilled that prophecy, and that his teachings, since he is the Son of God, must also be inspired and authoritative (Gospels). Judaism and the Old Testament scriptures are still applicable to us today, but they are largely meant for a specific people in a specific time period (i.e. Pre-Messianic Israel).
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