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If you don't believe in the IBC, he will force you to eat Mexican food with Kraft singles for eternity after you die.
(On a more serious note, it was exactly this kind of "logic" that was programmed into my brain since early childhood.)
I know. Work through the bitterness, Freak. It will free you. You don't want to be the old guy who is on the senior citizen's bus to the casino complaining about what his parents did to him when he was 10.
I'm starting to think Fundamentalists are being used by Satan. They're so gosh darn good and making people despise Christians, even when you are one!
The comments I've seen today of supposed devout Christians directed at gays is astonishing. So much hate and ignorance, it's evident these people have never read a word Jesus said.
"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are nothing like your Christ." - Gandhi
What part of the "concern for the well-being of everyone" that has been constantly pointed out as the basis for our conduct would lead you to believe that stoning adulterers, raping and enslaving women, selling children or bashing thie brains out leads you to believe that they would be alright regardless of anything confirming it? When does confirmation FROM the Bible equate to authority in ANYthing I have said?
How DO you manage to read from front to back?
Try again: If the Bible gives an expression of something that is consistent with the Spirit which animates that concern for the well-being of everyone, then that Spirit confirms the Bible as correct in this instance. Where it does not, or if the Bible contradicts that Spirit, the Bible is NOT the authority.
Are we together now?
No, I don't think we are. And that's probably my fault for the very poor writing in my previous post. I'll try to make up for that.
Let me try to be more clear. You say you have a set of values, of principles, of things that feel "true" and "right" to you. I'm with you; I understand that, and identify with it because that's my own reality as well.
Now, it seems to me that you're saying that the bible is a confirmative authority that is validated by the fact that there are passages in it which echo and agree with your innermost principles and values. Am I OK so far?
Assuming that I'm getting that right, I'll go on. But correct me if I'm wrong about that.
What I'm saying (although very poorly so far) is that if you had a very different set of values, and believed that it was just as "right" and just as "true" to sell your daughters, murder your neighbor and enslave his wife and children, and bash the heads of children against rocks if they lived in a different city from you, then the bible would validate that, as well. If that was the spirit that animated you, you could just as easily hold up the bible and say, "See? Says so right here!"
That's why I completely reject the bible as anything but a piece of interesting historical mythology.
Now, you said earlier that "We don't accept the things about God that we do because they are written in the Bible, but because they are confirmed to us by the Spirit that they present, the nature of the God we believe..." The trouble is, as far as I know the bible is the only source for "everything you accept about god." So whether you like it or not, the bible is the ultimate source (and authority) for everything you believe about christianity. Is there something about this that I'm still getting wrong?
Now, it seems to me that you're saying that the bible is a confirmative authority that is validated by the fact that there are passages in it which echo and agree with your innermost principles and values. Am I OK so far?
No. I said that anything that e get FROM the Bible that is appropriate is validated BY the Spirit, the "authority" IS the Spirit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Albert_The_Crocodile
Now, you said earlier that "We don't accept the things about God that we do because they are written in the Bible, but because they are confirmed to us by the Spirit that they present, the nature of the God we believe..." The trouble is, as far as I know the bible is the only source for "everything you accept about god." So whether you like it or not, the bible is the ultimate source (and authority) for everything you believe about christianity. Is there something about this that I'm still getting wrong?Finn, it is not the fact of disagreement over the issues that leads to accusations of bigotry, it is the fact that one view nagatively impacts innocent people.
No, the Bible is ONE OF the tools the Spirit uses to help us learn about God and our relationship to our fellow humans.
No. I said that anything that e get FROM the Bible that is appropriate is validated BY the Spirit, the "authority" IS the Spirit
No, the Bible is ONE OF the tools the Spirit uses to help us learn about God and our relationship to our fellow humans.
TOOL, not "authority."
Imagine for a minute, if you can, that the collection of writings called the Bible had never existed.
From where else would you have attained your knowledge of god ?
Imagine for a minute, if you can, that the collection of writings called the Bible had never existed.
From where else would you have attained your knowledge of god ?
What does that question have to do with the point about authority?
Imagine for a minute, if you can, that the collection of writings called the Bible had never existed.
From where else would you have attained your knowledge of god ?
I'll be very interested to read nate's reply. In the meantime it seems to me that you already answered your own question to a degree, from my perspective, in a previous post to me when you said that to choose love as a foundation for one's life does not require a belief in God (with which I agree). IF God is love, then any experience of loving or being loved is an experience of God and an opportunity to know about God. Beyond that, observations of our reality may give clues as well, and apparently did for many people in ancient times who spoke or wrote down their thoughts and conclusions. If they could do it without a book to reference, what's stopping anyone else?
I'll be very interested to read nate's reply. In the meantime it seems to me that you already answered your own question to a degree, from my perspective, in a previous post to me when you said that to choose love as a foundation for one's life does not require a belief in God (with which I agree). IF God is love, then any experience of loving or being loved is an experience of God and an opportunity to know about God. Beyond that, observations of our reality may give clues as well, and apparently did for many people in ancient times who spoke or wrote down their thoughts and conclusions. If they could do it without a book to reference, what's stopping anyone else?
Yeah, it might have been interesting. But he didn't.
I love it when someone answers a question with a question
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift
What does that question have to do with the point about authority?
I only answered my own question to a degree in your mind.
Firstly, even you say IF god is love...that's an IF. Then there is the IF of whether or not there's a god at all.
So, on one hand you're saying you agree you don't need to believe in god by loving/being loved but if you do, then it is experiencing god.
Sorry, that doesn't mesh.
Yeah, it might have been interesting. But he didn't.
I love it when someone answers a question with a question
I only answered my own question to a degree in your mind.
Firstly, even you say IF god is love...that's an IF. Then there is the IF of whether or not there's a god at all.
So, on one hand you're saying you agree you don't need to believe in god by loving/being loved but if you do, then it is experiencing god.
Sorry, that doesn't mesh.
It does for me.
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