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Then where did evil come from, then, if not from God? What spawned it? How did it come to be? The bottom line here (yes *another* bottom line) is that God created evil by *defining* what evil is. Until God said "this is bad, don't do that, this action is naughty," everything was just a neutral deed or thought.
Isn't that true? Well, of course it is. There's just no ducking out of God's culpability.
I will not debate the silly human-created Omni's, Shirina. You do an excellent job of pointing out their flaws. Evil is a product of consciousness, both in its perception and in its accomplishment. It requires consciousness to discriminate between good and evil and it requires consciousness to choose to do what is evil. Our experience reveals that consciousness does not spring whole into being. It develops and learns. This automatically allows for mistakes (sin=missing the mark) and choosing those things that are evil is what creates evil. A requirement for consciousness to learn implies that there is an ultimate goal . . . we would call it maturity . . . that is independently capable of discriminating and choosing good over evil. Does our experience of life teach us that we should expect the same performance and capabilities from a sprout, sapling, adult tree, or mighty oak? "Missing the mark" is built-in to the maturation process.
I will not debate the silly human-created Omni's, Shirina. You do an excellent job of pointing out their flaws. Evil is a product of consciousness, both in its perception and in its accomplishment. It requires consciousness to discriminate between good and evil and it requires consciousness to choose to do what is evil. Our experience reveals that consciousness does not spring whole into being. It develops and learns. This automatically allows for mistakes (sin=missing the mark) and choosing those things that are evil is what creates evil. A requirement for consciousness to learn implies that there is an ultimate goal . . . we would call it maturity . . . that is independently capable of discriminating and choosing good over evil. Does our experience of life teach us that we should expect the same performance and capabilities from a sprout, sapling, adult tree, or mighty oak? "Missing the mark" is built-in to the maturation process.
By the way Mystic, I don't believe you answered my question: Do you believe God created the heavens and the earth?
By the way Mystic, I don't believe you answered my question: Do you believe God created the heavens and the earth?
As far as I can tell, he believes that God IS the heavens and the earth. Not a new idea...its traditionally called Pantheism if I'm not mistaken.
That's why I have to be careful when debating the existence of "God" as an atheist. The definition of "God" varies so much from person to person that it's often hard to know what's being debated. But that's a whole new topic.
I will not debate the silly human-created Omni's, Shirina. You do an excellent job of pointing out their flaws. Evil is a product of consciousness, both in its perception and in its accomplishment. It requires consciousness to discriminate between good and evil and it requires consciousness to choose to do what is evil. Our experience reveals that consciousness does not spring whole into being. It develops and learns. This automatically allows for mistakes (sin=missing the mark) and choosing those things that are evil is what creates evil. A requirement for consciousness to learn implies that there is an ultimate goal . . . we would call it maturity . . . that is independently capable of discriminating and choosing good over evil. Does our experience of life teach us that we should expect the same performance and capabilities from a sprout, sapling, adult tree, or mighty oak? "Missing the mark" is built-in to the maturation process.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius
By the way Mystic, I don't believe you answered my question: Do you believe God created the heavens and the earth?
The existence of God is the reason the heavens and earth exist, Eusebius..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80
As far as I can tell, he believes that God IS the heavens and the earth. Not a new idea...its traditionally called Pantheism if I'm not mistaken.
That's why I have to be careful when debating the existence of "God" as an atheist. The definition of "God" varies so much from person to person that it's often hard to know what's being debated. But that's a whole new topic.
My version is called panENtheism, Freak. In sum, God is immanent and transcendent.
Last edited by MysticPhD; 09-29-2015 at 10:36 PM..
I find it appalling that you claim to be a Christian yet have such disrespect and hatred for God's Word. Most Christian churches in America would not accept your membership if you said such things.
Everything that's thousands of years old is going to be somewhat barbaric. Slavery was barbaric and it was only a few generations ago. No one really wants to live by all the rules of the bible, not even the people who say they do. The job of every generation is to clean out the last generations garage. That doesn't mean its all bad and archaic just because its old, there's lots of good living advice in the bible, but its by no means all good advice. We don't do all of the things our mentors did, we repeat what worked and learn from what didn't. That's why black people don't have their own separate drinking fountains and its why we don't still beat our wives with sticks, its why we don't take virgin women as the spoils of war then sell them. There is a little bit of barbarism in all the past generations, its not a put down, they just didn't know any better back then.
God didn't create Satan perfect in the sense of being sinless. God created Satan to be a liar and murderer perfectly for a good reason: that good would come from that evil.
Six million victims of the holocaust would disagree. I disagree. But if you are right then that would be a pretty barbaric part of God's plan. But I don't accept that it was part of any 'plan'. Some evil dude got into a position to commit evil deeds. And he wasn't the only one in that period. Stalin was no angel either.
God didn't create the universe, the sun or earth let alone life on earth. God didn't 'write' the bible, men did. Men who lived in barbaric times and lived barbaric lives. Men who would sacrifice their own sons to their god.
But since the question of barbarism in the bible was a general one, we should also look at the new testament. How barbaric is the crucifixion of the two robbers/murders and Christ himself. How barbaric is allowing one's own son to be crucified! This by a supposedly omnipotent god who now needs to commit this atrocity for the 'good of all mankind'!
Did it prevent the holocaust? Or the Spanish inquisition? Or the burning of 'witches' or the persecution of the Christians by the Romans. I mention the holocaust not because it was committed in the name of the bible but because it was committed against God's chosen people.
By the way, I had a quick look at what other flood myths actually say and I found that the boat and animals and seeds and two humans theme seems to be global. Very interesting!
Originally Posted by Eusebius
By the way Mystic, I don't believe you answered my question: Do you believe God created the heavens and the earth?
Quote:
Mystic replied:The existence of God is the reason the heavens and earth exist, Eusebius..
Okay, so you do believe God created the heavens and earth. Did you just pick that idea up out of thin air or did you get it from the Bible. And if from the Bible, where?
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