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all these "more..." can very well be just product of your imagination, but even if "more...", "more..." comparing to what? Stone? Dead chunk of wood?
Are you smarter, more creative and happier than who?
than me without God
my life goes better and is markedly improved with God, compared to my life without God
the benefits for me are tangible in all these areas: physical, emotional, intellectual, and spiritual
than me without God
my life goes better and is markedly improved with God, compared to my life without God
the benefits for me are tangible in all these areas: physical, emotional, intellectual, and spiritual
Yeah, I see.
Well, obviously these claims are too subjective to evaluate rationally or to take any kind of useful guidance from. But if you, personally, enjoy this state of mind, by all means, go at it.
Just please, when you'll get a feeling. that you are so uplifted with your connection with whatever you put a label "God" at, that you can fly, please come to your senses and don't try anything funny.
than me without God
my life goes better and is markedly improved with God, compared to my life without God
the benefits for me are tangible in all these areas: physical, emotional, intellectual, and spiritual
You would be experiencing these "benefits" (assuming they're real) even if God did not exist, because it is your BELIEF in God that is providing them, not God himself. If I tell myself there's a giant man in the sky who loves me and will be watching over me as I go through life, BOOM, instant comfort, instant good feelings. It doesn't matter that my god is a complete figment of my imagination, the good feelings are real. So the old "God exists because he changed my life for the better" argument is bogus.
You would be experiencing these "benefits" (assuming they're real) even if God did not exist, because it is your BELIEF in God that is providing them, not God himself. If I tell myself there's a giant man in the sky who loves me and will be watching over me as I go through life, BOOM, instant comfort, instant good feelings. It doesn't matter that my god is a complete figment of my imagination, the good feelings are real. So the old "God exists because he changed my life for the better" argument is bogus.
Exactly.
Religion is essentially a placebo: a false belief (or system of false beliefs) that provides real psychological benefits.
Religion probably does "change lives" and/or help people out of self-destructive behaviors via the placebo effect.
Exactly.
Religion is essentially a placebo: a false belief (or system of false beliefs) that provides real psychological benefits.
Religion probably does "change lives" and/or help people out of self-destructive behaviors via the placebo effect.
don't forget also real financial benefits, intellectual benefits, physical benefits, spiritual benefits, relationship benefits, career advancement benefits, educational benefits, problem solving benefits, peace of mind benefits.
what could be more sensible, practical, delightful, desirable than improving in any or all of those areas?!
.................... anymore credible than a belief in fairies, goblins, elves and unicorns? There is no verifiable evidence to support the existence of any god.
It's all because everyone will have to encounter a death.
Statistically, you can ignore the existence of fairies, goblins and so on because it's pretty safe to assume that no one encountered them thus no one writes seriously about the encountering. If people around you don't seriously claim the encounters (i.e., multiple accounts of witnessing you consider reliable), it is pretty safe statistically to assume their non-existence.
Spiritual encounters however are totally something else. Statistically, everyone will have to encounter death. No encounter claims are widely written down not because of the lack of encounters such as the encountering of fairies. It's in very contrary that everyone will have to encounter death. The situation is rather no one can come back to write their witnessing about death.
To put it another way, it's not the lack of encounters which makes the witnessing rare as in the case of unicorn encounters. It's the nature of death which makes the witnessing rare due to the fact that no one can come back from death to make a testimony.
So if whatever being true after death, the only way humans can get to the truth is to rely on those who possibly come back from death, or those who are believed to have gone very near to death. God on the other hand, is just a belief of the existence of an entity who might affect what would happen after your death. Moreover, unlike the passive unicorns who, if exist, will have to wait passively for the encounter of humans. God on the other hand, can have the reason and power to avoid such an encounter with humans, such that just as claimed, you have to rely on faith to approach Him.
Serious claims and witnessing exist. However the very nature of human witnessing is that it relies on one's faith to get to the truth in the case that it's a truth.
than me without God
my life goes better and is markedly improved with God, compared to my life without God
the benefits for me are tangible in all these areas: physical, emotional, intellectual, and spiritual
And if I were to provide proof that my life got better after I quit believing and became an atheist, would you accept this as proof that no God exists? Somehow I don't think so. So, why would you accept the betterment of your life after you "found God" as evidence that God was the reason for your life becoming better? Cause/effect.
don't forget also real financial benefits, intellectual benefits, physical benefits, spiritual benefits, relationship benefits, career advancement benefits, educational benefits, problem solving benefits, peace of mind benefits.
what could be more sensible, practical, delightful, desirable than improving in any or all of those areas?!
It's not sensible (to me) if it's based on deception.
Then again, maybe I would enjoy a simulated reality where I was age 25 and had throngs of hot young women chasing me. Still, it'd be creepy.
And if I were to provide proof that my life got better after I quit believing and became an atheist, would you accept this as proof that no God exists? Somehow I don't think so. So, why would you accept the betterment of your life after you "found God" as evidence that God was the reason for your life becoming better? Cause/effect.
Ditto. I've experienced the same ups and downs both as believer and a non-believer, and the only fundamental difference is in my perception of those events. Prosperity theology rarely lives up to it's claims, especially for the faithful who are living in abject poverty and facing dire life obstacles they did not bring upon themselves.
And if I were to provide proof that my life got better after I quit believing and became an atheist, would you accept this as proof that no God exists? Somehow I don't think so. So, why would you accept the betterment of your life after you "found God" as evidence that God was the reason for your life becoming better? Cause/effect.
I am not trying to prove anything to anyone, I am simply sharing my experience
my reply was to a single question that hutennis asked in post #138, asking "So, what is your reason for rejecting the simplest substantiated explanation for observed facts in favor of something else?"
my answer is because it gives me better practical results.
I have neither the desire nor the intention nor the willingness to try and convince anyone of anything. I am happy to participate in discussions and share my own experiences.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 10-14-2015 at 06:44 PM..
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