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No, it doesn't sound unreasonable. However you can't really say that because someone can't
prove said believe to you makes any less real. As a Pagan we believe that the earth is our mother & without her we all die. Science backs that up I can also say that the earth is alive & there is some science to back that up as well. I can also state that the universe it alive & expanding too. Can Christians proof anything of the sort? No. Because their faith is based on a book & there is no science or anything to go on.
Again it really comes down to faith. I know I keep repeating that look at it his way even an Atheist has to have... wait for it.. faith of some sort to believe there is nothing out there.
The claim that the earth and the universe are alive depends upon your definition of "alive". If you consider "ever changing and evolving" as you definition, I would agree, but if you want to include some conscious agent, I would ask for you to provide evidence for this claim. Otherwise, I would have no belief in this hypothesis. Why must I have "faith" that anything doesn't exist? The default, at least for most people, should be that nothing exists unless evidence exists to establish this claim. I don't have faith that Nessie doesn't exist, I simply have no evidence that suggests she does.
I understand your point lack of proof does not guarantee that the claim isn't true, but I do believe that it does make the claim less likely. Since you admit to not having proof of your claim that you can show me, can you at least provide some justification for what you believe is proof to you is justified?
The claim that the earth and the universe are alive depends upon your definition of "alive". If you consider "ever changing and evolving" as you definition, I would agree, but if you want to include some conscious agent, I would ask for you to provide evidence for this claim. Otherwise, I would have no belief in this hypothesis. Why must I have "faith" that anything doesn't exist? The default, at least for most people, should be that nothing exists unless evidence exists to establish this claim. I don't have faith that Nessie doesn't exist, I simply have no evidence that suggests she does.
I understand your point lack of proof does not guarantee that the claim isn't true, but I do believe that it does make the claim less likely. Since you admit to not having proof of your claim that you can show me, can you at least provide some justification for what you believe is proof to you is justified?
For something to evolve as you put it, I would say that it needs to be alive again this is my personal opinion Same with the earth. No can I prove any of this to you or anyone else, but why should I? Why is it my place to prove something to you that you can't or don't want to see for yourself? It's not my job or anyone's to say (here believe this & don't ask for evidence) Faith is the corner stone for faith, love, etc. Love is something you can't see but you can feel. right? Do you believe in love? I'm not a Christian I'm a Pagan I am telling you & some of the reasons why if don't agree I am fine with that it doesn't bother me I sleep well enough at night.
For something to evolve as you put it, I would say that it needs to be alive again this is my personal opinion Same with the earth. No can I prove any of this to you or anyone else, but why should I? Why is it my place to prove something to you that you can't or don't want to see for yourself? It's not my job or anyone's to say (here believe this & don't ask for evidence) Faith is the corner stone for faith, love, etc. Love is something you can't see but you can feel. right? Do you believe in love? I'm not a Christian I'm a Pagan I am telling you & some of the reasons why if don't agree I am fine with that it doesn't bother me I sleep well enough at night.
Yes, I believe in love because we can see evidence of it, since it is simply a chemical reaction in the brain which can be measured. Of course you have no obligation to prove anything to me, but I would suspect that if you make a claim that you'd like for me to believe you and to understand your point. Without evidence, your claims can be simply dismissed and not considered. I'm simply trying to understand why you would use faith in this instance when I suppose you don't use faith in any other major decisions in your life. But, I do appreciate your attempts to help me understand.
The claim that the earth and the universe are alive depends upon your definition of "alive". If you consider "ever changing and evolving" as you definition, I would agree, but if you want to include some conscious agent, I would ask for you to provide evidence for this claim. Otherwise, I would have no belief in this hypothesis. Why must I have "faith" that anything doesn't exist? The default, at least for most people, should be that nothing exists unless evidence exists to establish this claim. I don't have faith that Nessie doesn't exist, I simply have no evidence that suggests she does.
I understand your point lack of proof does not guarantee that the claim isn't true, but I do believe that it does make the claim less likely. Since you admit to not having proof of your claim that you can show me, can you at least provide some justification for what you believe is proof to you is justified?
lack of proof is cop out. so is a lack of belief. Blind faith is for those that can't do the math for themselves. Either atheist or otherwise. The facts are simple. The fabric of space is something akin to a three dimensional screen that everything is in/on. So is a nucleolus alive in a cell? how about a protein? how about the ceil itself? life is only a transfer of information, or processing if you will. The universe is a giant processor. The biosphere of the earth acts almost exactly like a cell. Is your tooth alive? the calcium in your tooth? or any calcium ion in your body? proteins make you, we are part of the biosphere.
It is not if the universe is alive or dead at this point. the question is only of it knows we are here or not. Quantum mech and the question of exactly what is energy says only a definitely maybe. Now a finger pointing Omni dude? that is far less likely.
Yes, I believe in love because we can see evidence of it, since it is simply a chemical reaction in the brain which can be measured. Of course you have no obligation to prove anything to me, but I would suspect that if you make a claim that you'd like for me to believe you and to understand your point. Without evidence, your claims can be simply dismissed and not considered. I'm simply trying to understand why you would use faith in this instance when I suppose you don't use faith in any other major decisions in your life. But, I do appreciate your attempts to help me understand.
No problem. Everyone should be entitled to find their own way not matter what they choose or don't choose to believe. People do use faith on a daily bases though they use faith & hope that they make it though the day or that their loved ones don't get hurt. I would even say that Atheist have some faith even knowing that they don't believe in any deity. They don't have prove that there isn't anything up there or where ever, they believe said deity lives. I'm thinking that would require some sort of faith on their part as well.
No problem. Everyone should be entitled to find their own way not matter what they choose or don't choose to believe. People do use faith on a daily bases though they use faith & hope that they make it though the day or that their loved ones don't get hurt. I would even say that Atheist have some faith even knowing that they don't believe in any deity. They don't have prove that there isn't anything up there or where ever, they believe said deity lives. I'm thinking that would require some sort of faith on their part as well.
I'm afraid I'm not following your thought process here.
There are things I don't know to be true or not true. The best response to those is to not form a belief unless and until I have better info. That's the whole basis of atheism in fact. Atheism is a belief position, not a knowledge position. The belief position is that you decline to believe. The knowledge position is that you don't know and/or think a thing unlikely.
It's very simple really.
I honestly can't think of anything I truly take "by faith" to be true. I just believe or disbelieve certain things based on my estimation of their likelihood to be true.
Now ... natural selection has wired us all up to tend to assume better things are just around the next corner, or failing that, the next. If we didn't underestimate difficulties and overestimate benefits, most of us would give up and never make an effort. Natural selection has also given us strong tendencies to see patterns and agency even if we have to make them up. These are survival adaptations, or were in the world of hunter-gatherers. If you mean that everyone has a tendency to do those kinds of things -- to think their ship will eventually come in, that there is some bestowed meaning or purpose, that one can reasonably hope for better days and ultimate closure ... if that's what you're calling faith, then I can somewhat agree with you. But technically that isn't faith so much as optimism.
I'm afraid I'm not following your thought process here.
There are things I don't know to be true or not true. The best response to those is to not form a belief unless and until I have better info. That's the whole basis of atheism in fact. Atheism is a belief position, not a knowledge position. The belief position is that you decline to believe. The knowledge position is that you don't know and/or think a thing unlikely.
It's very simple really.
I honestly can't think of anything I truly take "by faith" to be true. I just believe or disbelieve certain things based on my estimation of their likelihood to be true.
Now ... natural selection has wired us all up to tend to assume better things are just around the next corner, or failing that, the next. If we didn't underestimate difficulties and overestimate benefits, most of us would give up and never make an effort. Natural selection has also given us strong tendencies to see patterns and agency even if we have to make them up. These are survival adaptations, or were in the world of hunter-gatherers. If you mean that everyone has a tendency to do those kinds of things -- to think their ship will eventually come in, that there is some bestowed meaning or purpose, that one can reasonably hope for better days and ultimate closure ... if that's what you're calling faith, then I can somewhat agree with you. But technically that isn't faith so much as optimism.
Forgive me here maybe I wasn't clear. I don't mean the type of faith that people who believe in creative design, but faith in the fact that once we die that's it your dead.
Forgive me here maybe I wasn't clear. I don't mean the type of faith that people who believe in creative design, but faith in the fact that once we die that's it your dead.
I don't have faith in oblivion after death, I simply think it the most likely thing that happens, by quite a bit.
There's a fine line, here. If you believe something sufficiently (un)likely then you will order your life as if that (un)likelihood were a settled fact. But that is because you think you're correctly assessed likelihood, not because of some "leap of faith". In point of fact most people seem to think that some form of immortality is more attractive to believe than not ... so where is the motivation for a "leap of faith" to "embrace" mortality? I've never claimed it's more superficially attractive than the Christian heaven. Only that it's more likely to be true.
No, it doesn't sound unreasonable. However you can't really say that because someone can't
prove said believe to you makes any less real. As a Pagan we believe that the earth is our mother & without her we all die. Science backs that up I can also say that the earth is alive & there is some science to back that up as well. I can also state that the universe it alive & expanding too. Can Christians proof anything of the sort? No. Because their faith is based on a book & there is no science or anything to go on.
Again it really comes down to faith. I know I keep repeating that look at it his way even an Atheist has to have... wait for it.. faith of some sort to believe there is nothing out there.
Nope, you have it backwards.
The only faith required with respect to this question is a faith that just about everyone holds - that our senses and mental processes are roughly accurate as to the world around us, that we can understand how those senses work, understand their limitations, and build on them to gather evidence of phenomena that we can't sense directly, and that other humans with similar knowledge and equipment can observe the same phenomena we do.
From there, the question becomes - what clearcut, objective evidence is there that "something" is out there?
If I tell you that an object that I call the "sun" rises in a place I call "east", you don't have to take my word for it, you just have to know what I mean by "sun" and "east", and you can verify it for yourself. Then you can take this further and with more evidence construct a world view that says not only does the sun rise in the east, but that there is an infinitesimally small probability that it can or will rise anywhere else. And of course this world view not only explains where the sun rises, but also where Orion rises. And any human anywhere in the world can verify these things as well.
But if you tell me that "something" rather than "nothing" is out there, you got a whole lot of 'splainin to do - starting with exactly what you mean by "something" and "nothing", and exactly what evidence would demonstrate which state exists and exactly what evidence would demonstrate that it didn't.
Most theists readily admit that there is no evidence that would demonstrate to them that the state that exists is "nothing". Which leaves us atheists scratching our heads, because proof ordinarily consists of two parts - evidence that supports a particular proposition *and* evidence that excludes, to a high degree of probability, other possibilities.
No problem. Everyone should be entitled to find their own way not matter what they choose or don't choose to believe. People do use faith on a daily bases though they use faith & hope that they make it though the day or that their loved ones don't get hurt. I would even say that Atheist have some faith even knowing that they don't believe in any deity. They don't have prove that there isn't anything up there or where ever, they believe said deity lives. I'm thinking that would require some sort of faith on their part as well.
As Mordant explained this faith you described is more optimism than faith. I do believe that I'll make it through the day because I know the condition of my health, my planned activities, the condition of my vehicles, etc., but of course I don't know what might happen like a car accident, that might affect my day. I do know that if I make any major decisions, like most reasonable people, I will assess the factors that determine whether the decision is a good one or not, and base my decisions upon this evidence. Is this not what you normally do? I will assume that you, a reasonable person, would indeed evaluate the evidence to make your decisions. Why would you not use empirical evidence in making a decision on how you base your life, a much more important decision in my opinion?
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of some sort to believe there is nothing out there.
