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In the past, there was certainly a lot discussion by churches that taught the "sin of Odin" as many euphemistically called masturbation, although some included it as sodomy.
One would hope that things are more enlightened now, and that even evangelical church leaders understand that masturbation is a natural activity, both by males and females.
Are there still churches that actively preach against masturbation in today's world? Other than using the biblical suggestions that masturbation should not be done (and that is only, like much else in the bible, an extrapolation), what possible reason would they still preach that?
Sorry, I'll get back to you when I can stop hysterically laughing about the "sin of Odin." Is frigging somehow involved with this sin?
Then of course, there's this stanza from one of my favorite Python songs....
Let the heathen spill theirs
On the dusty ground
God shall make them pay for
Each sperm that can't be found
In the past, there was certainly a lot discussion by churches that taught the "sin of Odin" as many euphemistically called masturbation, although some included it as sodomy.
One would hope that things are more enlightened now, and that even evangelical church leaders understand that masturbation is a natural activity, both by males and females.
Are there still churches that actively preach against masturbation in today's world? Other than using the biblical suggestions that masturbation should not be done (and that is only, like much else in the bible, an extrapolation), what possible reason would they still preach that?
I believe that everyone who use to furiously teach this as a strict no no has since died of complications from warts.
The specific sin of Onan was not masturbation, it was premature withdrawal from normal sexual intercourse due to an unwillingness to impregnate his dead brother's wife and "raise up seed" in his dead brother's stead according to the cultural tradition of that day.
Of course, it depends which Bible interpretation you want to stick to but...
Genesis 38:8-10New International Version (NIV)
8 Then Judah said to Onan, “Sleep with your brother’s wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to raise up offspring for your brother.†9 But Onan knew that the child would not be his; so whenever he slept with his brother’s wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from providing offspring for his brother. 10 What he did was wicked in the Lord’s sight; so the Lord put him to death also.
Not a word about premature withdrawal. Also, apparently god wanted Onan to commit adultery
Also, apparently there was an established "duty" for BIL to sleep with brother's wife?
My fundamentalist denomuination never explicitly condemned it, but the whole guilt/shame attitude around sexuality certainly cast a negative shadow over it. I certainly had feelings of guilt and shame about it.
It is interesting, because in my experience it was explicitly taught against. I mean, sure we had the entire nebulous guilt thing going on, but it was pretty strongly anti masturbation. It was couched differently than maybe it was in my Grandpa's day. Onanism may have been the thing railed against in earlier times, but by the time I was a kid, most fundamentalists had enough rationality to admit that Onan's sin was something entirely different, as mordant pointed out.
The way I was taught was this:
Any sexual desire outside of the context of marriage is lust.
Jesus warns us against lust in pretty harsh terms. If your eye causes you to stumble, tear it out, and the like.
Masturbation is inextricably linked with sexual desire and therefore, outside of the context of marriage, is based on lust, and should be avoided at all costs.
Of course this is bad enough, but couple this with the requirement to abstain from all sexual contact before marriage (depending on how fundamentalist you are, that can even include kissing), you wind up with two young people who have expectations that because they did the right thing the wedding night will be the best night of their lives, and those expectations are often shattered pretty brutally.
This was enough for me when I was a teenager, and young adult, but as a young married believer it didn't stop there. My wife and I, as relatively naive and inexperienced, but devout newlyweds went through a whole bunch of the "How to have a Biblically based fulfilling sex life" books and seminars and whatnot, and even there, masturbation was still frowned upon unless done with your partner, and also not done mechanically in any way. Toys were pretty much seen as at best unnecessary means of making sex a selfish, unloving physical encounter, and at worst physically unhealthy, emotionally damaging, and addictive (I kid you not). Several books warned that vibrators would ruin a godly sex life.
This is certainly not universal, but If I were to go down the local Crossway or Lifeway, I wouldn't be surprised if I could find quite a few books supporting and spreading these types of views. I actually think I still have them in the house somewhere...
It is interesting, because in my experience it was explicitly taught against. I mean, sure we had the entire nebulous guilt thing going on, but it was pretty strongly anti masturbation. It was couched differently than maybe it was in my Grandpa's day. Onanism may have been the thing railed against in earlier times, but by the time I was a kid, most fundamentalists had enough rationality to admit that Onan's sin was something entirely different, as mordant pointed out.
The way I was taught was this:
Any sexual desire outside of the context of marriage is lust.
Jesus warns us against lust in pretty harsh terms. If your eye causes you to stumble, tear it out, and the like.
Masturbation is inextricably linked with sexual desire and therefore, outside of the context of marriage, is based on lust, and should be avoided at all costs.
Of course this is bad enough, but couple this with the requirement to abstain from all sexual contact before marriage (depending on how fundamentalist you are, that can even include kissing), you wind up with two young people who have expectations that because they did the right thing the wedding night will be the best night of their lives, and those expectations are often shattered pretty brutally.
This was enough for me when I was a teenager, and young adult, but as a young married believer it didn't stop there. My wife and I, as relatively naive and inexperienced, but devout newlyweds went through a whole bunch of the "How to have a Biblically based fulfilling sex life" books and seminars and whatnot, and even there, masturbation was still frowned upon unless done with your partner, and also not done mechanically in any way. Toys were pretty much seen as at best unnecessary means of making sex a selfish, unloving physical encounter, and at worst physically unhealthy, emotionally damaging, and addictive (I kid you not). Several books warned that vibrators would ruin a godly sex life.
This is certainly not universal, but If I were to go down the local Crossway or Lifeway, I wouldn't be surprised if I could find quite a few books supporting and spreading these types of views. I actually think I still have them in the house somewhere...
-NoCapo
Let's face it, there are probably few things more carnal-minded than sexual intercourse. Why on earth would a God who focuses on spiritual matters and wants us to be spiritual-minded care one whit about such carnal matters????
Let's face it, there are probably few things more carnal-minded than sexual intercourse. Why on earth would a God who focuses on spiritual matters and wants us to be spiritual-minded care one whit about such carnal matters????
If you don't have to square it with a specific holy book, that certainly is an approach one could take. Or you could take the Hindu approach that sex done properly can be one of the most spiritual experiences achievable, and thus you should spend lots of time and practice doing it in a correct, spiritual manner. There are lots of options, just not so many if you regard the Bible as in literal, infallible, inerrant Word of God. Then you have some limits you have to work within.
I mean, according to Paul, you should be absolutely celibate, unless you think the "carnal mind" is going to overpower you. In which case you should get a wife, not because of love, but so you have somewhere to stick it that won't condemn you to hell. And she is obligated to let you use her as a way to avoid sin, unless she is busy with religious observation, specifically prayer.
I am sure a great many believers are able to just ignore that stuff, and come up with other rationalizations, but "Biblical marriage" honestly seems pretty horrible...
It seems that our regular church goers and leaders have no comment or wisdom to add.
It seems to me that this thread only exists to poke fun at Christianity again.
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