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You understand what you want to understand. But you could always prove me wrong by explaining why you think that the laws that Yahweh said are unchanging and everlasting, don't apply any more.
A revelation came to me more clearly today. I understand why atheists gleefully jumped right in front of the whole gay marriage debate last year and passionately defended it. It wasn't out of some grand desire for equality and justice for it. It wasn't a moral crusade. It was only because the issue gave them a vehicle to easily scapegoat Christians, hence the constant "bigot" term tossed around and stubborn refusal to even try to understand the other side of the debate.
Tell me, where was the atheists in 80s and 90s when the gay culture was really under attack during the AIDS epidemic? I certainly didn't see great waves of protest when the defense of marriage act was signed. Well of course, a Christian coming out speaking against homosexuality in that era would not have received any criticism. You couldn't scapegoat us then.
The world can change all it wants. God's Word is forever. And because of that, homosexuality is still and will always be a sin.
Wow. Your arrogance truly blinds you.
I can't speak for all atheists on this one, but frankly, I do not care at all about gay marriage. I don't think it's necessary, I don't think we're better off with it, I don't think it's a sign of progress. Neither do I think it's immoral or regressive. I simply think it does not matter.
I do support gay marriage though. Not because I personally care, but enough gay people have expressed interest, as have straight people, in legalizing gay marriage to make the conversation worth having. At this point, you have to hear out both sides of the argument. Sorry, but saying you're against it for personal conviction is a **** reason to keep it illegal. Do you know why? Because it's selfish. It makes the assumption that because you are against it, no one else should have it available to them.
That's authoritarianism and it's completely undemocratic. It also opposes the liberal values which this country was founded on.
The issue was not religion vs secularism or atheism vs Christianity; it was reason. The better reasoned argument wins out. You lost because you're argument was complete and utter trash to anyone who doesn't think exactly like you. Notice how those against gay marriage usually have strict religious views, whereas supporters of gay marriage come from a variety of different religious backgrounds, some having none and some having one. Also, many self described Christians, followers of the man who said love they enemy, seem to have a difficult time treating gay people as people and aren't just worried about their marriages. This is a sign of the type of person who is arguing against it, and most people are turned off by it. Again, this could be why atheists mistreat you, as you claim happens to much, a point I've made multiple times that you continually ignore. Can't imagine why...
You understand what you want to understand. But you could always prove me wrong by explaining why you think that the laws that Yahweh said are unchanging and everlasting, don't apply any more.
The vast majority of Christian sects do not accept the OT as applicable to Christians . A few sects might , but almost all do not . This is not an avoidance issue or dodge by Jeff , it is the normal view of Christianity . Christians operate under the grace of Christ, not the laws of the Jews and the OT .
Having said that , those Christians , that after rightfully proclaiming that they live under grace and not the Law , want to go and argue for the Ten Commandments in courthouses and other public places , or use OT laws to argue against homosexuality or for the death penalty are hypocrites . You cannot proclaim it doesn't apply in most situations but that it should in a few . It either is applicable in its entirety outside the Jews, or it's not .
A revelation came to me more clearly today. I understand why atheists gleefully jumped right in front of the whole gay marriage debate last year and passionately defended it. It wasn't out of some grand desire for equality and justice for it. It wasn't a moral crusade. It was only because the issue gave them a vehicle to easily scapegoat Christians, hence the constant "bigot" term tossed around and stubborn refusal to even try to understand the other side of the debate.
Tell me, where was the atheists in 80s and 90s when the gay culture was really under attack during the AIDS epidemic? I certainly didn't see great waves of protest when the defense of marriage act was signed. Well of course, a Christian coming out speaking against homosexuality in that era would not have received any criticism. You couldn't scapegoat us then.
The world can change all it wants. God's Word is forever. And because of that, homosexuality is still and will always be a sin.
Why do you obsess over this issue? Are you gay? Are you Christian? Are you a follower of Christ?
Christ said "love thy neighbor". He also said "love thy enemy". Nowhere did he say "hate gays" or "despise gays" or "deny gays any rights". Nowhere!
The world can change all it wants. God's Word is forever.
...and yet you keep arguing that your Jesus 'abolished' those laws. Which is it? Either Yahweh's word is unchanging and everlasting as you just said...or your Jesus absolved you of Yahweh's word/laws. You can't have both.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wallflash
The vast majority of Christian sects do not accept the OT as applicable to Christians . A few sects might , but almost all do not . This is not an avoidance issue or dodge by Jeff , it is the normal view of Christianity . Christians operate under the grace of Christ, not the laws of the Jews and the OT .
Yup! Yet their Jesus referred to the OT many times.
...and yet you keep arguing that your Jesus 'abolished' those laws. Which is it? Either Yahweh's word is unchanging and everlasting as you just said...or your Jesus absolved you of Yahweh's word/laws. You can't have both.
Yup! Yet their Jesus referred to the OT many times.
If only Christians would wise up and follow the teachings of Christ and abolish the OT!
...and yet you keep arguing that your Jesus 'abolished' those laws. Which is it? Either Yahweh's word is unchanging and everlasting as you just said...or your Jesus absolved you of Yahweh's word/laws. You can't have both.
Yup! Yet their Jesus referred to the OT many times.
Jesus was a Jew who came to the Jews only himself , aside from a few random encounters with non Jews . The Jesus belief spread to the rest of the world through the Apostles, who decided the Jewish laws should not be applied to Gentiles . They also did NOT absolve Jewish Jesus believers from continuing to follow Jewish laws. It was still applicable to them.
Why do you obsess over this issue? Are you gay? Are you Christian? Are you a follower of Christ?
Christ said "love thy neighbor". He also said "love thy enemy". Nowhere did he say "hate gays" or "despise gays" or "deny gays any rights". Nowhere!
Thanks. A man I know refers to it as SOGO. There are Christ's words--which, it should be pointed out, are rarely literal but given in parables or riddles or humorously or with double meanings. Everything else is SOGO--some other guy's opinion.
...and yet you keep arguing that your Jesus 'abolished' those laws. Which is it? Either Yahweh's word is unchanging and everlasting as you just said...or your Jesus absolved you of Yahweh's word/laws. You can't have both.
Yup! Yet their Jesus referred to the OT many times.
Of course. He was operating within their culture, and he used their sacred texts to make his points. Referencing Plato wouldn't have had the same effect.
(I know you were referring to the idea that the OT is literally The Word Of God.)
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