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ISIS dies not represent Islam and the communist regimes do not represent atheist either. So what was your point? And why bring up these regimes? Communism was an ideology and was associated with atheism mainly by the US in an attempt to make it the opposite of each other. A lack of belief in any god does not make one a mass murderer and most countries that are low in religious belief are also low in crime. I saw no reason for your post other than to try to make Christians appear better than others and I guess if you can delete all that do wrong doings you would be right, but that is the case for all groups.
I didn't say that being an atheist automatically makes one a mass murderer but it just so happens that in those country's I wrote about they were. You are not defending them I hope. You make it difficult to communicate with if you want to conclude things that I never said.
Have you even read the Koran? Isis is doing what that book calls for. The Quran contains many verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule and they are trying to implement it. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding and they are doing it according to their book.
If you think I am making this stuff up then you can go educate yourself and then come back and educate me.
I didn't say that being an atheist automatically makes one a mass murderer but it just so happens that in those country's I wrote about they were. You are not defending them I hope. You make it difficult to communicate with if you want to conclude things that I never said.
Have you even read the Koran? Isis is doing what that book calls for. The Quran contains many verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule and they are trying implement it. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding and they are doing it according to their book.
If you think I am making this stuff up then you and can go educate yourself and then come back and educate me.
No I know the Quran has nasty stuff in it as does the Bible. Even if it is in the OT it is the same God.
I am not defending the communist regimes, but what they did was under the ideology of communism not atheisM no different than Germany did what they did under fascism or Nazis ideology rather than Christianity. What I am saying is that you cannot take out the bad from one group and then compare it to only the bad of another group and consider that a fair comparison. As far as history lessons goes if one compares the treatment of Jews by Muslims compared to the treatment by Christians from say 1000 to 1945 the Muslims come off much more tolerant and accepting whereas you compare them in the period of 1960 to today the opposite is the case.
My grandfather fled from the Christian Russian Czars army and Stalin and his peers were raised during the time of the Czars so is it a clear conclusion that the Soviets killed because they were not Christians or perhaps the killed because the were raised in a terrible culture that was ImperialnRussia? I don't know, however you were the one who brought mass killings by non Christians into a thread about a letter to a small town newspaper.
Yes, and those atheist regimes are responsible for more genocide then anyone can count.
A little education in history might help you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by garya123
Have you even read the Koran?
Have you ever read the Bible?
(Leviticus 20:10) "And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death."
(Exodus 12:29-30) "And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle. And Pharaoh rose up in the night, he, and all his servants, and all the Egyptians; and there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead."
(I Chronicles 21:14) "So the LORD sent pestilence upon Israel: and there fell of Israel seventy thousand men."
(II Chronicles 14:12)So the LORD smote the Ethiopians before Asa, and before Judah; and the Ethiopians fled.
(Exodus 11:4-5) "And Moses said, Thus saith the LORD, About midnight will I go out into the midst of Egypt: And all the firstborn in the land of Egypt shall die, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sitteth upon his throne, even unto the firstborn of the maidservant that is behind the mill; and all the firstborn of beasts."
(I Samuel 6:19) "And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the LORD had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter."
(Deuteronomy 13: 5) "And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God..."
(Deuteronomy 13:8-9) "Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people."
(Deuteronomy 13:15) "Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword."
(I Samuel 15:2-3) Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass."
*(Numbers 31:16-18) Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."
(Isaiah 13:15-16) "Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword. Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished."
(Genesis 9:5-6) "And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man. Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made the man."
(Ezekiel 9:5-6) "And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and woman: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house."
(Psalms 58:10) "The righteous shall rejoice when he sees the vengeance. He shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked."
(Exodus 32:27) "And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour."
(Leviticus 20:9) "For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him."
(Numbers 15:32-36) "And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation. And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him. And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses."
As everyone who reads my posts know, nothing brings out my "militant" atheism more than when some Christian or another tries to tell atheists to essentially "sit down and shut up."
Whether it's when an atheist group puts up a sign, a billboard, or springs for a message hung on the side of a bus ... or even if it's simply calling the Bible "garbage" on a forum post, I'm really sick and tired of certain Christians blowing a gasket whenever we exercise our right to free speech in this country that "supposedly" gives us that right.
Yet when I opened yesterday's newspaper -- which is ostensibly a secular newspaper reporting secular news like every other newspaper, what I read nearly caused my eyes to melt out of my head like those poor saps at the end of the Raiders of the Lost Ark movie:
People Need to Accept Jesus
Editor,
God said in John 8:12 "I am the light of the world." People don't seem to understand that God sent his son to us not to condemn us but to save us. We are no different than those in early Bible times. I know there are a lot of people out there still living in sin by the way the world is run. God revealed to me, tell my people that Jesus shed his blood for our sins.
There is a hell. If we don't accept Jesus there is where we'll be. I hope this will change a lot of people's lives. I shed a few tears while I wrote this.
-- Winnie Hook, Knox
Yeah, Winnie, I shed a few tears, too. Namely because you had the arrogance to threaten the readership of this paper with hell if we all didn't convert to your immoral religion. Thanks for that. It's always nice to begin one's morning with a fresh cup of coffee, a warm piece of toast with melted butter, and a threat of eternal torture if we don't heed your ridiculous warnings by joining your ancient messianic doomsday cult with a proverbial gun to our heads.
Bugger off!
What's even "nicer," I must say, is why the hell a secular newspaper is publishing something like this. Were there no better letters to the editor to publish yesterday? Was a lot of mewling proselytizing, threats, and whining about sin the best you had to offer?
I'm giving serious thought to writing my own letter telling everyone how they should accept Allah and see if this paper has the stones -- and the American spirit -- to actually publish it. Not that they should be publishing something like this in the first place.
There's just something not right about a secular paper publishing a letter that is pure proselytizing religious chest-beating. It has no business in a goddamn NEWSPAPER.
Yet I ask in the thread title ... is this irony or hypocrisy because, even though a letter like this ought not to have been published in a secular newspaper, there it is. Which, of course, should give all of the "boohoo, everyone is out to silence religion" whiners like Jeffbase a moment of pause.
If their allegations are true, then why is this letter in yesterday's newspaper? Hmm, it sure does seem like religion is bleating its message loud and clear to me, Jeff. I don't see a big blank space that says, "Message about religion deleted due to atheist attack." And this isn't even a religious publication. Plus, this isn't the first time. I see people chest-beating about religion ALL ... THE ... TIME with more than a few attacks on atheists (with several of the articles taking, shall we say, great liberties with the morality of atheists.)
Is it hypocrisy that people like Jeff are constantly complaining about religion being silenced and yet religion seems to be everywhere you look?
Or is it just irony that atheists are always being told to essentially "shut up" because we're just too loud; we're drowning out the message of religion which just isn't getting the air time that it used to? (If you look really closely ... no, closer, no real close. No, you'll have to put your nose right up against your monitor. If you do that, you might see me rolling my eyes).
Meanwhile, there's this weird god-guy who thought I would be pleased that he murdered his son so he could forgive me for sins that he preordained that I would commit. I dunno. Sounds like a scam to me. Wait, what? All I have to do is pay 10% of my income, can he have my credit card number and check routing info? I knew it! The next thing you know, this god-guy organization will say that I'll have to hate gays, will demand that I help censor Harry Potter from public libraries, and always vote for the most right-wing, pro-business, pro-rich, war-mongering, immigrant-hating Republican in every election. Wait ... really ...?
It's more of a bipolar immoral religion than just an immoral one. Or maybe partly immoral due to not being a proper savior but more of a savior that threatens to let you be hurt if you don't bow to him as Master.
The Newspaper would publish such a weak letter to the editor because it placates or pacifies religious criticism, and they would get more exposure for publishing it. The Newspaper (various people working as a unit) is just doing whatever good it thinks it's trying to manage.
Deuteronomy 21:18 If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard.” 21 Then all the men of his town are to stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid.
Deuteronomy 13 “If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in put ting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again.
Judges19 “While they were enjoying themselves, some of the wicked men of the city surrounded the house. Pounding on the door, they shouted to the old man who owned the house, “Bring out the man who came to your house so we can have sex with him.” The owner of the house went outside and said to them, “No, my friends, don’t be so vile. Since this man is my guest, don’t do this outrageous thing. Look, here is my virgin daughter, and his concubine. I will bring them out to you now, and you can use them and do to them whatever you wish. But as for this man, don’t do such an outrageous thing.” But the men would not listen to him. So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go.
Leviticus 30:13: If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.
It is as you say, "history" and so it as nothing to do with today. I can't pretend to understand or explain all that is in the Old Testament but I do know this.
EZEK 20:25 "Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live;"
Many of the laws then were not good by God's own admission so as to try them no doubt because they were a stiffed necked and rebellious people. Those laws actually pointed out that all were guilty of something and so all should have learned mercy.
Didn't Jesus say, "Let he that is without sin cast the first stone." and "The weightier matters of the law are mercy, good judgment and faith."
And besides it is just a book written by men as many say and no doubt you, so why do you make such a big deal over it. Why spend such effort to condemn what it says as if it pertains to us seeing that a true Christian and the Jews do not adhere to some of those old laws. There may be fringe elements that do but I do not.
It is a big step from someone complaining about a letter to the editor to telling her she should leave her own country to listing some awful regimes and blaming them on atheism.
I was just making comment on what Eusebius implied about atheist regimes, who I think, just said it tongue-in-cheek. I do not know the OP and wish her well.
I was just making comment on what Eusebius implied about atheist regimes, who I think, just said it tongue-in-cheek. I do not know the OP and wish her well.
(Leviticus 20:10) "And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death."
(Exodus 12:29-30) "And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle. And Pharaoh rose up in the night, he, and all his servants, and all the Egyptians; and there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead."
(I Chronicles 21:14) "So the LORD sent pestilence upon Israel: and there fell of Israel seventy thousand men."
(II Chronicles 14:12)So the LORD smote the Ethiopians before Asa, and before Judah; and the Ethiopians fled.
(Exodus 11:4-5) "And Moses said, Thus saith the LORD, About midnight will I go out into the midst of Egypt: And all the firstborn in the land of Egypt shall die, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sitteth upon his throne, even unto the firstborn of the maidservant that is behind the mill; and all the firstborn of beasts."
(I Samuel 6:19) "And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the LORD had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter."
(Deuteronomy 13: 5) "And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God..."
(Deuteronomy 13:8-9) "Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people."
(Deuteronomy 13:15) "Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword."
(I Samuel 15:2-3) Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass."
*(Numbers 31:16-18) Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."
(Isaiah 13:15-16) "Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword. Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished."
(Genesis 9:5-6) "And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man. Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made the man."
(Ezekiel 9:5-6) "And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and woman: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house."
(Psalms 58:10) "The righteous shall rejoice when he sees the vengeance. He shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked."
(Exodus 32:27) "And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour."
(Leviticus 20:9) "For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him."
(Numbers 15:32-36) "And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation. And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him. And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses."
I notice you don't list a single verse in the NT and all these are directives given specifically and ONLY to the Israelities to ensure their survival.
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