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Why isn't it? Why must we use your definition of charity? it's charitable when you contribute moeny to the food pantry so they can pay a janitor to clean up? Or a lawn care service to mow the lawn but not a church?
I've already answered this . Why are you circling back instead of continuing on with answering the follow up questions I asked . A food pantry exists solely to feed the poor . So while they obviously have to spend money on such items, their existence is solely to provide a charitable service . Your church exists to serve church members . That in itself is not charity, no matter how much you want to call it this . It is funding an organization in which you receive services in return for funding it . Those are called membership dues , not charitable giving .
Please move on. This is twice I have clearly explained this .
What wasn't good enough ? I based my objections off of your link . It shows a small amount of the budget goes to actual charitable work and most goes to the operating budget of the church . If you think this is incorrect then please point out where instead of whining . Go back to the numbers . Show me where there is more than a 10% budget for what could possibly be actual charity. Please . Deal with facts .The 13 % includes missionary work, which isn't charity but proselytizing . If you have facts then you can show me where I am wrong . Please proceed .
Missionary work is charity. Helping people physically and spiritually is charity. You're the one who refuses to accept the fact that it costs a lot of money to run a church and pay salaries.
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Originally Posted by wallflash
And I don't care how a church goes about its business . I am simply pointing out that contributing to a secretaries salary and a grounds crew to mow the church isn't charity to the community . What don't you get about that ?
Then what's your point? Churches are not giving enough back? Then please explain how you propose that a church refuse to pay their bills or employees so they can have a 80% charity rate.
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Originally Posted by wallflash
As far as me trashing the church this thread is a direct response to your claim that religious people are more charitable . Why did you brag about that?Do you see any non theist whining about how mean you are to them ? So why do you whine when someone points out the flaws in your claim ?
And my thread was in response to all the garbage attacks on Christians and the churches. You would think we are just scum of the earth if one was to buy into the propaganda crap your side spews on here constantly. Without the church, what would we have? Relying on the government for charity. That's scary. Just ask a vet if they are happy about their healthcare.
Missionary work is charity. Helping people physically and spiritually is charity. You're the one who refuses to accept the fact that it costs a lot of money to run a church and pay salaries.
I don't deny it takes money to run a church . Please stick with the facts of what I am saying . I am saying that work is not charity work . Missionary work that limits itself to proselytizing is not charity work . To what extent they actually do things to better people's lives like dig wells, build shelter , etc, is charity, but evangelizing and proselytizing is not .
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Then what's your point? Churches are not giving enough back? Then please explain how you propose that a church refuse to pay their bills or employees so they can have a 80% charity rate.
Please read the thread with the intent to understand . My point has been clearly stated . You and others claim that religious people give more to charity, yet what you are counting as charity is membership dues to a church that provides you with certain services in return and does little to no actual charity work . I don't begrudge you supporting your church, I disagree though that your donations are charity . They are money you give to help operate an organization that in return provides certain services for you .
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And my thread was in response to all the garbage attacks on Christians and the churches. You would think we are just scum of the earth if one was to buy into the propaganda crap your side spews on here constantly. Without the church, what would we have? Relying on the government for charity. That's scary. Just ask a vet if they are happy about their healthcare.
You are welcome to create any thread you wish . And others are free to create threads that question your claims .
I've already answered this . Why are you circling back instead of continuing on with answering the follow up questions I asked . A food pantry exists solely to feed the poor . So while they obviously have to spend money on such items, their existence is solely to provide a charitable service .
That's great. But again--you have not told me why your definition of "charity" is the one to use.
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Your church exists to serve church members .
Not entirely. We exist to serve the members, and the community.
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That in itself is not charity, no matter how much you want to call it this .
Why not?
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It is funding an organization in which you receive services in return for funding it . Those are called membership dues , not charitable giving .
Please move on. This is twice I have clearly explained this .
You have given me your opinion. Nothing else. And you assume your opinion is the only one. You should try to be more tolerant. You'll go farther in life.
So for a church in a very rich community the money spent on the building and the services is charity because it helps the needy, those rich parishers? Or does only the funds that go out to help the truly needy count?
I see the reason for this thread is that if one states that all contributions to a church are charity then religious people would tend to be more charitable because they are supporting their own churches. If we viewed physical fitness in the same light as church membership then fitness club members would become very chartible.
So now you are anti-church? You're anti-Bible, anti-Christian but apparently NOT an atheist. Sure sounds atheist to me.
It's hardly a secret, on this board, that I'm Christian who is, as Christ taught, pro- feeding the hungry, visiting the sick, taking care of our elderly, standing up for the disenfranchised and fighting against those who discriminate.
If that "sounds" atheist to you......complain to Jesus. Your beef may be with him.
p.s. I'm hardly anti-church since my very favorite church is full of the poor and the hungry and the disenfranchised and I feel very close to God when I am sitting among them. That church runs an all-volunteer food bank that is one of my favorite charities, BTW. The poor helping the poor. I'm confident Jesus, who you'll remember from the Bible if you're not seeing him in the faces of the poor, would be pleased.
Last edited by DewDropInn; 06-10-2016 at 05:12 PM..
You asked for evidence and I provided DIRECT FINANCIAL statements and yet that wasn't good enough. People like you are just infuriating to reason with. You just want to find any reason to trash the positive elements of God's people and the church.
Do you really think a church should employ people for free and refuse to pay their operating costs to give more to charity?
The financial statement you linked to showed that at most 13% of revenue was going towards charity (if zero is spent on proselytizing).
I don't think anyone is saying a church should employ people for free or refuse to pay their operating costs. That's fine; it's just not charity.
I asked the police group that was calling for cash. He said about 10%.
Wow.
lucky I am not anti-cop too.
Those organizations which call you soliciting funds for a "police group" or similar are for-profit businesses who have permission to use the group's name. They keep a huge percentage, including commission for the person calling you. NEVER give them a cent. If you want to support your local police department, do it directly. Call them and ask if they have an association to which you can contribute.
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