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The subject seems to pop up every couple of months about how religious folks are more charitable . Now , this thread is not about a comparison between religious and non religious charitable donations, but rather an examination of religious giving often termed charity. But how much really is charity, i.e. , donations made to aid the less fortunate get along better in society?
Whenever the claims of greater charity are made , and the point of how much of it isn't spent on actual charity, the religious seem to avoid the issue .So let's discuss how much of religious giving is really charity. Any guesses ?
Every church has expenses . Building note, utilities, insurances , vehicles, building and grounds maintenance , salaries, media material ,etc . How much of the money given goes to these things, which does nothing for the homeless guy or single mother ?
So how much of the dollars given actually goes to true charity?
And please keep the discussion on THIS topic and not religious vs non religious giving , which has its own thread . Numerous ones actually .
I suppose the first question is one I put in the comparison thread - which churches (if any) have their accounts open to public scrutiny. well, let's see.
Hmm,.... "Do you believe that it’s wrong for churches not to publicly display how all the tithes and offerings were allocated throughout the year?
Is there any scriptures in God’s word that supports your reasoning?
Why do you think some churches do not show how the money was used?"
"Pope Francis on Monday revolutionized the Vatican's scandal-plagued finances, inviting outside experts into a world often seen as murky and secretive and saying the church must use its wealth to help the poor."
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-va...A1N0TA20140224
Suggests that up to now, they weren't. The Pope does seem to be motivated by a desire to reform the Vatican either because he see what's wrong with it or because he is worried about people leaving. Ireland is looking like it will shortly become a non catholic nation. Imagine...Houghly Oirland! That's like Bangladesh becoming a non -islamic nation....
Sorry, what??
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 06-10-2016 at 06:16 AM..
While this would be helpful, having been in a church at high levels of involvement in the behind the scenes stuff I can tell you most churches struggle to pay their basic bills . They regularly hear sermons on giving , have fund raising drives, entice members to sign pledge cards , etc, because they do not have an excess of money coming in.
If they have to beg and twist arms to make a basic budget, how much past that basic budget is going out to actual charity ?
It isn't, not at least in your definition of charity, which appears to mean direct monetary help to the needy.
Some years ago I read an article listing the charitable donations of billionaires in the NYC area. Most such donations didn't fall under the category of supporting the needy, but rather were donations to art museums or to build facilities at alma maters. I was a bit taken aback, because like you, I thought of charity differently.
Often it's not even the church organization that is giving to charity directly, but the members who gather and meet at the church (whose utilities and other costs you list above they pay and can deduct as a charitable donation per the IRS.) For example, we regularly collect food and monetary donations for a local food pantry. That's coming directly from members giving as they are able, not the church.
People also recently gave money directly to help a single mother who is pregnant. The baby's father was killed in a motorcycle accident last month. (She may not be here legally and so has no resources--Trump supporters cover your eyes.)
So, while the church itself may not have money to give much directly to charity, it can facilitate the giving by virtue of being a place where people with the same outlook and commitment to help others gather and exchange information about need.
Now I'm guessing your reasoning behind this thread is to reignite the evergreen topic of whether then the church's income used to pay expenses should be taxed. I don't have the answer for that and it's been done to death on here anyway.
While this would be helpful, having been in a church at high levels of involvement in the behind the scenes stuff I can tell you most churches struggle to pay their basic bills . They regularly hear sermons on giving , have fund raising drives, entice members to sign pledge cards , etc, because they do not have an excess of money coming in.
If they have to beg and twist arms to make a basic budget, how much past that basic budget is going out to actual charity ?
That's a good point. Of course, if a Church is struggling to make ends meet, why is it even continuing? If there is a real social need, then I wouldn't object to it being funded from public money - so long as churches kick in their taxes. Of course, I knew long since that the Church of England, awash with Dosh, let its parish vicars starve on a stipend.
The subject seems to pop up every couple of months about how religious folks are more charitable . Now , this thread is not about a comparison between religious and non religious charitable donations, but rather an examination of religious giving often termed charity. But how much really is charity, i.e. , donations made to aid the less fortunate get along better in society?
Whenever the claims of greater charity are made , and the point of how much of it isn't spent on actual charity, the religious seem to avoid the issue .So let's discuss how much of religious giving is really charity. Any guesses ?
Every church has expenses . Building note, utilities, insurances , vehicles, building and grounds maintenance , salaries, media material ,etc . How much of the money given goes to these things, which does nothing for the homeless guy or single mother ?
So how much of the dollars given actually goes to true charity?
And please keep the discussion on THIS topic and not religious vs non religious giving , which has its own thread . Numerous ones actually .
Since the church itself is a worthy charitable organization, 100%.
Since the church itself is a worthy charitable organization, 100%.
How do you figure all the expenses I listed are true charity? I'm not asking for the legal tax definition, but a reality one . Something that directly helps the needy and less fortunate .
Your qualifications for actual charity seem to be " given to a church ". This isn't so in reality .
How do you figure all the expenses I listed are true charity? I'm not asking for the legal tax definition, but a reality one . Something that directly helps the needy and less fortunate .
Your qualifications for actual charity seem to be " given to a church ". This isn't so in reality .
A church is a charitable organization. That's enough.
Suppose I give all my charitable giving to a food pantry. Are you going to go through and nitpick how much goes directly to feed the homeless? Is it wrong that some of it meets the basic needs to pay the light bill?
A church is a charitable organization. That's enough.
Legally yes. In terms of Christians bragging about giving , no. And your responses indicate you understand this .
Quote:
Suppose I give all my charitable giving to a food pantry. Are you going to go through and nitpick how much goes directly to feed the homeless? Is it wrong that some of it meets the basic needs to pay the light bill?
The role of a food pantry is to serve the needy and hungry . Any admin costs go to that aim.
The role of a church is to provide services to church members . There is nothing inherently charitable about proving a preacher to a group of Christians sitting in a pew listening to him.
The church does not exist to provide charitable services to the poor and needy . That is the difference between the two .
So, as a pastor , would you care to enlighten the posters here how much of your church budget is used for " in house " things I described , and what part goes out to the community in some sort of actual charity ?
Legally yes. In terms of Christians bragging about giving , no. And your responses indicate you understand this .
The role of a food pantry is to serve the needy and hungry . Any admin costs go to that aim.
The role of a church is to provide services to church members . There is nothing inherently charitable about proving a preacher to a group of Christians sitting in a pew listening to him.
I think you misunderstand the purpose of a church. No--we are not a country club that merely exists to provide a nice show to our members, or to be a social club.
Quote:
The church does not exist to provide charitable services to the poor and needy . That is the difference between the two .
So, as a pastor , would you care to enlighten the posters here how much of your church budget is used for " in house " things I described , and what part goes out to the community in some sort of actual charity ?
100% of our budget is used for ministry to the community -- of which our members come from. The administration costs go to that aim. I reject the assertions you're getting at that somehow the administrative costs at my church are less worthy than the ones at a food pantry simply because you don't value them the same.
On a side note, not a dime of the money that my church collects goes to salary. Zero. My salary is paid for by an outside agency.
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