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YES, Exactly...you have a rose and you have a black widow spider....
you have a happy wedding party and you have the curtained off room of a smoky heroin parlor.....
it is all
the Creator's dream....mind...experience...all of it.
You have the newborn robin in it's nest ...while you have the leopard tearing the neck
of a little antelope fawn.
This is the Creator's creation....nothing good...nothing bad...it just all 'is';
pure observed experience...like watching a movie...you have Dracula and you have a Jennifer Aniston Rom-com....
All part of the dream.
Ask phet, the Buddhist...nothing good, nothing bad.
Ask the atheist - they'll say the same (as you observed yourself). We call it 'Nature'. Only a few physicists, tongue in cheek call it 'God', meaning, how it all works. 'God' carries too much religious baggage to replace 'nature'. Which is why some of them want to do it. It is all part of the ploy of smuggling an unknowable God in, disguised as knowable Nature.
Ask the atheist - they'll say the same (as you observed yourself). We call it 'Nature'. Only a few physicists, tongue in cheek call it 'God', meaning, how it all works. 'God' carries too much religious baggage to replace 'nature'. Which is why some of them want to do it. It is all part of the ploy of smuggling an unknowable God in, disguised as knowable Nature.
THATS IT.
line up the traits they assign god to what we know about nature as see what flushes out.
You are denying everything based on you thinking the letters D-G-L carry to much baggage is not the most valid approach. in fact, it tends to lead to obscurism. Obscurism means you have to be deceitful when people do see you are giving them only half of the facts.
If you choose the word "natural" as your base claim, then their god is "natural".
what traits do they give that god that line up with "natural"
what traits do they give it that don't line up with "natural".
this post shows our disconnect too.
you dismiss what gld says because you feel the word has to much baggage. You do not evaluate his claims based on observation, you deny him based on how you feel about three letters DGL.
Except Buddhism -- at least Theravada Buddhism -- doesn't say that. If you wanna believe it (I don't) there are multiple levels of Buddhist heavens and hells.
It's kinda neat if you go out into a lush, green forest or the magnificent Grand Canyon
at dawn or dusk, especially...
and realize this is God's nature...His very nature.
they are triggered so hard by three letters DGO they lost all perspective mrs H.
they do not even ask themselves "How could me hating the word GOD affect my conclusion about people's claims?"
I don't call nature god. I think some of the traits you give your god line up with the standard model and I think some of them don't.
They weigh claims against how they feel about the word god like you base your claim on how you feel about nature.
I weigh claims on a measurement. its crude, thats true enough. but its better than "Some of us feel religion is so dangerous we need to deny everything they can use that makes atheism harder to sell."
Me? i don't think mother nature much cares how we feel past that of a person watching how their body parts behave.
A purpose suggests design. There is no purpose if this is all just some “cosmic accident”.
This is always a hard one for believers to understand. We create our own 'purpose'. It is better than having one in posed by somebody else. So, as well as there being no reason to believe in a 'designer' of some Purpose for us, we see no reason to want one.
....let's anticipate a chess move.
"That's arrogant and prideful. That's putting yourself in the place of God!'
Was it arrogant and prideful for the US to decide their own life rather than having it dictated by Britain? Were they putting themselves in the place of George III by independence, or were they putting freedom from godlike rule in it's place? And what was arrogant and prideful about that?
The supplementary answer to the follow up - "but that's a revolt against humans. We're talking about God."
There is no reason to beliie that such a god exists, so its rights and powers are irrelevant. The point is that we see no reason to need it or its' meanings, so it's actually better if it and it's plans for us don't exist.
It's kinda neat if you go out into a lush, green forest or the magnificent Grand Canyon
at dawn or dusk, especially...
and realize this is God's nature...His very nature.
The atheist prefers to look at nature and not just see fluffy bunnies but the tooth and claw. Unpleasant truths are more for us than comfortable illusions, miss H.
We still feel the Awe of a billion galaxies with a billion stars, the amazement of the complexity of evolved life - even though we see how it grew and did not need designing.
We revel in the beauty of a sunset and it doesn't matter that we know how dust in the air screens out all but the red light.
We can relish the near terror that comes with Indeterminacy, multiple dimensions and the holographic universe, and we are thankful that we see nature as it is and do not have the view obscured by rows of billboards telling us it's God.
Yes - we know, Miss H, we know; you were 'Not arguing - just telling'. The mere action of telling us how good it is for you carries the implicit claim that it might be good for us, too. So I am not arguing with you, but just telling, that if it's good for you, that's fine. But I don't think we are missing out on any awe, beauty or wonder. Just the curtain of Oz.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 06-23-2019 at 05:47 PM..
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