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Old 06-23-2019, 05:46 PM
 
28,432 posts, read 11,567,423 times
Reputation: 2070

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
The atheist prefers to look at nature and not just see fluffy bunnies but the tooth and claw. Unpleasant truths are more for us than comfortable illusions, miss H.

We still feel the Awe of a billion galaxies with a billion stars, the amazement of the complexity of evolved life - even though we see how it grew and did not need designing.

We revel in the beauty of a sunset and it doesn't matter that we know how dust in the air screens out all but the red light.

We can relish the near terror that comes with Indeterminacy, multiple dimensions and the holographic universe, and we are thankful that we see nature as it is and do not have the view obscured by rows of billboards telling us it's God.
some atheist don't have to change how the universe works because the word GOD has too much baggage.

If it the trait of god matches the observation ... so what, it matches. some match and some don't.

in fact, most atheist don't deny stuff just because of the word god. only a certain type of atheist have to deny everything so that it obscure some facts and recruits for anti-god, anti-anything sects.
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Old 06-23-2019, 06:39 PM
 
Location: Ohio
24,621 posts, read 19,152,432 times
Reputation: 21738
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
Re Nature
That's an extremely ethnocentric view. Other celestial bodies are incredibly hostile, not just to humans, but all life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
A purpose suggests design. There is no purpose if this is all just some “cosmic accident”.
What you call a "cosmic accident" is just the Laws of Physics.

Your whole existence is just a series of accidents, some more important or having major consequences and some trivially minor.

The first major accident that impacts you directly is Earth's collision with a large celestial body.

When our Solar System first formed, it looked, in accordance with the Laws of Physics, exactly like this:

Mercury
Venus
Mars
Earth
Jupiter
Saturn
Uranus
Neptune

Mercury is located 36,250,000 miles from the Sun. Doubling that distance we get 72,500,000 miles and we find Venus at 67,200,000 miles from the Sun.

That's an error margin of 7.31%

Doubling the distance of Venus to get 134,400,000 miles, and Lo and behold! We find Mars orbiting at 141,700,000 miles from the Sun.

That's an error margin of 5.15%

Doubling Mars' distance to get 283,400,000 miles we find the Earth/Asteroid Belt at 260,400,000 miles.

An error margin of 8.8%

Let's double the distance of the Earth/Asteroid Belt to get 520,800,000 miles and we find Jupiter located at 484,000,000 miles.

An error margin of 7.06%

If we double Jupiter's distance to 968,000,000 then we find Saturn at 887,100,000 miles.

The error margin is 8.35%

If we double Saturn's distance to 1,774,200 miles, then we find Uranus at 1,783,900 miles for an error margin of only 0.54%

We can also examine the ratios of the planets' distances:

Venus 1.85
Mars 2.10
Earth/Asteroid Belt 1.84
Jupiter 1.86
Saturn 1.83
Uranus 2.01

That collision knocked Earth out of its orbit and into its present orbit, left you with a 10" wobble that causes the Precession of the Equinoxes, an axial tilt that is responsible for the Four Seasons and a huge scar we call the Pacific Ocean Basin. Through the process of plate tectonics, that battle scar will be filled in and sea levels will rise, and I don't mean 3 meters to 14 meters, I mean like 300 meters to 1,400 meters or more. You won't see any continents, just island, some island chains and a couple of two or three large island the size of Australian or Greenland.

Your next accident is the asteroid/comet that brought life to Earth.

Then that one anaerobic bacteria that mutated to tolerate Oxygen. Oxygen is a poison to anaerobic bacteria. Who knows how many hundreds of species of anaerobic bacteria went extinct as Oxygen leached out of the ocean into the atmosphere.

Later, a descendant of that one bacteria mutated to not just tolerate Oxygen, but actually use it.

Then the Chixulub Event. That's why we're here. If it wasn't for that, none of would be here.

Timing is everything. If that asteroid lands a few seconds early, it's in the Pacific Ocean and doesn't do much damage. A few seconds later and it lands in the Atlantic. It does some damage, but not to the extent it did.

If that asteroid doesn't hit, dinosaurs rule for another 46 Million years at least. Mammals never have a chance to proliferate, because they're dinosaur snacks.

You have to get rid of the dinosaurs so that mammals can proliferate.

Note that none of that has anything to do with a god-thing.

It's all random chance governed by the Laws of Physics.

So, if you think you're special, you're not. You're only special relative to other life forms on Earth and that's only because Evolution gave you a better brain.

Relative to other life forms in the Universe, you might actually be at the bottom of the food chain.
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Old 06-23-2019, 06:49 PM
 
28,432 posts, read 11,567,423 times
Reputation: 2070
well, I heard the events in a cell described as random.

a cell is anything but random. yes, the definition means unknown outcome, but the outcome is life. we might not know exactly where a particular molecule is going, but we do know enough of them where they are supposed to be.

I also heard a person describe evolution to humans. he must of used the word random chance over ten times in less than 2 minutes. I wondered how many times we can use the word random in evolution before we realize its not that random.

those two systems are guided. they also fit the definition of random. however many people use the word random incorrectly. a cell and evolution are not random in a sense that anything can happen at any time. Like pink elephant coming out of an egg. that doesn't happen. in fact, only a limited set of reactions can happen or the life form goes extincted.

its really never describe as "random accident" as many theist try to tell us. definitely not a cosmic accident. there are no pink elephants popping into existence. ... errr .... wait a min ...
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Old 06-23-2019, 07:02 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,438 posts, read 12,775,263 times
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Quote:
What you call a "cosmic accident" is just the Laws of Physics.
And those laws were put there by a designer or they’re just a way of explaining the cosmic accident.
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Old 06-23-2019, 09:02 PM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
31,373 posts, read 20,168,052 times
Reputation: 14069
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
And those laws were put there by a designer or they’re just a way of explaining the cosmic accident.
According to pre-school-level theology.

Keep studying little jimmiej. One day you'll graduate to 1st Grade.

Maybe.
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Old 06-23-2019, 11:55 PM
 
Location: Germany
16,756 posts, read 4,968,659 times
Reputation: 2110
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
And those laws were put there by a designer or they’re just a way of explaining the cosmic accident.
Neither. Anything that exists must have properties and behaviors, this is a fact whether a god exists or not. So no gods are required to explain why the properties of the universe.

The laws of physics are our description of those behaviors.
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Old 06-24-2019, 03:32 AM
 
12,918 posts, read 16,854,254 times
Reputation: 5434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post
Neither. Anything that exists must have properties and behaviors, this is a fact whether a god exists or not. So no gods are required to explain why the properties of the universe.

The laws of physics are our description of those behaviors.
Back to the insanity of circular arguments.
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Old 06-24-2019, 04:01 AM
 
Location: Germany
16,756 posts, read 4,968,659 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
Back to the insanity of circular arguments.
So you can give us an example of something that exists that does NOT have properties and behaviors? Otherwise simply dismissing my points as 'the insanity of circular arguments' is either your inability to think rationally or dishonesty.
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Old 06-24-2019, 04:24 AM
 
28,432 posts, read 11,567,423 times
Reputation: 2070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post
Neither. Anything that exists must have properties and behaviors, this is a fact whether a god exists or not. So no gods are required to explain why the properties of the universe.

The laws of physics are our description of those behaviors.
list the properties and behaviors of the system we are in. keeping in mind of course, the physics is incomplete. That's the best descriptor we have what their god is.
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Old 06-24-2019, 04:29 AM
 
Location: Germany
16,756 posts, read 4,968,659 times
Reputation: 2110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
list the properties and behaviors of the system we are in. keeping in mind of course, the physics is incomplete. That's the best descriptor we have what their god is.
List the traits of Ozzy's god.
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