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Because I'm a helpful sort, I'm going to assist those who are hell-bent to reinvent Jesus as a warm and fuzzy big brother who pretty much just wants everyone to play nice, get along and give hugs all around.
The historical Jesus - boo! hiss! - said this (Matthew 10:34-36, NASB):
"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household.”
Eek, this is obviously not the Jesus you want. Alas, even the scholars of the Jesus Seminar, who were no friends of the historical Jesus, assigned this a “Gray” rating, meaning that (in their exceedingly restrictive view) Jesus probably did not say exactly this but very possibly something like it. They were not troubled by the content but by the fact that (in their exceedingly restrictive view) Jesus seldom referred to himself in the first person ("I").
Here is the same saying in the non-canonical Gospel of Thomas, which is widely regarded as a 2nd century gnostic text but which some scholars, notably John Dominic Crossan (hero of the Jesus Seminar!), insist is actually a very early, pre-gospel collection of Jesus’s sayings:
Jesus said, “Perhaps people think that I have come to cast peace upon the world. They do not know that I have come to cast conflicts upon the earth: fire, sword, war. For there will be five in a house: there will be three against two and two against three, father against son and son against father, and they will stand alone.”
Oh, dear, this just will not do. But take heart, there is a solution. It’s called, in lawyerly terms, a legislative amendment. Now most Christians don’t believe the Bible is subject to legislative amendment since it is the Word of God – but if you're going to reinvent Jesus anyway, what the hell, huh?
So here we go. My first draft. Just like a real legislative amendment, deletions are in [fuchsia] and insertions in blue:
"[Do not] Think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did [not] come to bring peace, [but] not a sword. For I came to [set] unite a man [against] with his father, and a daughter [against] with her mother, and a daughter-in-law [against] with her mother-in-law; and a man’s [enemies] beloved will be the members of his household.”
Bingo, your new and improved Jesus now says:
"Think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did come to bring peace, not a sword. For I came to unite a man with his father, and a daughter with her mother, and a daughter-in-law with her mother-in-law; and a man’s beloved will be the members of his household.”
You'll need to do this with about 75% of the NT - I'm not going to do all of your work for you. Just so you don't get confused, you'll probably want to call your version something like Not Exactly the New Testament or perhaps the New Testament Lite.
Because I'm a helpful sort, I'm going to assist those who are hell-bent to reinvent Jesus as a warm and fuzzy big brother who pretty much just wants everyone to play nice, get along and give hugs all around....
I think your first task is to show where anyone has described Jesus like that (other than you.) Otherwise, you're just arguing with yourself.
Indeed. First thing is o scrap the well -poisoning and strawman stuff and find out what atheists actually think about Jesus.
The Historical Jesus? By and large, I (at least) am sure there was one. I am sure that he had disciples - Peter and James, by name, for two, was crucified by Pilate and very probably did a donkey ride to the temple and cause a bit of mayhem there. There was probably even a feasting of 5,000 at Bethsaida. I recently even began to consider hat the High Priest and his coterie might have been gunning for the fellow.
On the other hand, to talk of the Historical Jesus and rot out quotations from Matthew in the same sentence would indeed elicit a chorus of boos and hisses.
I think your first task is to show where anyone has described Jesus like that (other than you.) Otherwise, you're just arguing with yourself.
I think we all know otherwise--the difference is those who seriously believe---
"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household.”
---Really cannot wait for this action top be carried out against "non-believers" whereas those deemed apostates by the fundamentalists realize the actions will be carried-out against the organized "church."
I think we all know otherwise--the difference is those who seriously believe---
"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household.”
---Really cannot wait for this action top be carried out against "non-believers" whereas those deemed apostates by the fundamentalists realize the actions will be carried-out against the organized "church."
The Watchtower loves that scripture too. They quote it as a way to say shunning family members is actually a test of loyalty to God. I'm not surprised it's a favorite among the faithful of other true religions as a way to squelch dissent. This video is nearly 10 minutes but the first 2-3 minutes proves what I said about them.
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