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So, what is "True"....??? My reality is my reality. It probably is not the same as yours. Again, many seem to define truth, as only that which can be weighed and measured. I do not define truth that way. There are other ways of perceiving "truth" and/or reality. We will never agree on this. To say I WANT something to be true is nonsensical....I neither want nor don't want....it simply is. What I am perceiving in this discussion is the atheist/agnostic side demands a physical, measurable reality in order to accept that something is "real". or "true"....believers in God/a higher power/cosmic consciousness...or whatever you wish to call it, do not demand this. And so, we are accused of not being interested in learning or in knowing how to think. That is absurd. Many believers are very intelligent, highly educated and extremely interested in learning about a variety of things.
Well it was you that said that you were only interested in YOUR truth. That would imply that you don't really care whether that 'truth' is true or not.
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Our belief/faith doesn't make us stupid.
Some people might think that employing a method that is know to be just about the worst way of arriving at the truth, to arrive at the 'truth', might indicate so.
I’m just trying to understand what your ‘reality’ is - May I ask if you are christian, wiccan, neutral, something else? I think I am missing the point you are trying to make (or the point of your discussion).
Are you sure you want to get involved in this? Just giving fair warning! It seems to get ugly here sometimes!
Anyway, I guess as far as what "religion" I follow, I might say "all of the above"....I find some "truths" (I hate to use that word again!) in many religions...My beliefs or non-beliefs have been atheism, agnosticism, Wiccan, Buddhism, Taoism, Christianity and generally a mix of many of these.......My "reality" in general is probably the same as everyone else's day to day reality. The debate on here seems to be between those who don't "believe" anything unless they have objective, verifiable evidence and those who "believe" that there is something other than an objective, verifiable reality. Some might call that God, the Tao, the Implicate Order, Cosmic Consciousness, etc. etc. My point, I guess, is that there is more to reality than meets the eye, so to speak. I have had personal experiences that have convinced me of this. It is hard to convey the effects of those experiences to those who have not had them and refuse to consider them, since they have not had such experiences. Since they have not experienced them, they do not exist or are not "true".
Does that answer any of your questions or just create more?
Well it was you that said that you were only interested in YOUR truth. That would imply that you don't really care whether that 'truth' is true or not.
Some people might think that employing a method that is know to be just about the worst way of arriving at the truth, to arrive at the 'truth', might indicate so.
We seem to have difficulties around the word "truth"....so what is YOUR definition of "truth"?
Are you sure you want to get involved in this? Just giving fair warning! It seems to get ugly here sometimes!
Anyway, I guess as far as what "religion" I follow, I might say "all of the above"....I find some "truths" (I hate to use that word again!) in many religions...My beliefs or non-beliefs have been atheism, agnosticism, Wiccan, Buddhism, Taoism, Christianity and generally a mix of many of these.......My "reality" in general is probably the same as everyone else's day to day reality. The debate on here seems to be between those who don't "believe" anything unless they have objective, verifiable evidence and those who "believe" that there is something other than an objective, verifiable reality. Some might call that God, the Tao, the Implicate Order, Cosmic Consciousness, etc. etc. My point, I guess, is that there is more to reality than meets the eye, so to speak. I have had personal experiences that have convinced me of this. It is hard to convey the effects of those experiences to those who have not had them and refuse to consider them, since they have not had such experiences. Since they have not experienced them, they do not exist or are not "true".
Does that answer any of your questions or just create more?
There is a difference between philosophy/relative truth and religion - and your stance wasn’t clear. It still isn’t!
So, what is "True"....??? My reality is my reality. It probably is not the same as yours. Again, many seem to define truth, as only that which can be weighed and measured. I do not define truth that way. There are other ways of perceiving "truth" and/or reality. We will never agree on this. To say I WANT something to be true is nonsensical....I neither want nor don't want....it simply is.
Truth is not your "personal truth". Your "reality" is not reality on a whole either. Essentially what you are saying, is that whatever you believe to be true IS true. That isn't how this works. That isn't how any of this works.
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Originally Posted by Unicorn hunter
What I am perceiving in this discussion is the atheist/agnostic side demands a physical, measurable reality in order to accept that something is "real". or "true"....believers in God/a higher power/cosmic consciousness...or whatever you wish to call it, do not demand this. And so, we are accused of not being interested in learning or in knowing how to think. That is absurd.
In general, the default should be to believe only that which can be shown to be true. Why would it not be? You are saying that you should believe whatever you want, because it is "your truth". If that were the case, then "my truth" would also be the truth, making yours false.... It makes ZERO sense to anyone who actually does anything thinking. Sorry you find that offensive, but it is a FACT, that if you are not interested in the ACTUAL truth, you aren't thinking or learning. Period.
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Originally Posted by Unicorn hunter
Many believers are very intelligent, highly educated and extremely interested in learning about a variety of things. Our belief/faith doesn't make us stupid.
Who said it makes you stupid? You don't have to be stupid to not be interested in actual truth, but you do have to have a great amount of bias and ignorance.
Note: ignorance on a subject does not make one stupid...
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Originally Posted by Unicorn hunter
We have simply encountered something on a level that you have not.
"We are more special than you stupid atheists!"
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Originally Posted by Unicorn hunter
This something is not going to be found in reading, research, study, what have you. It might be found in meditation. It's like trying to explain the 5th dimension to someone living in 3 dimensions.....I am not trying to call non-believers stupid or evil, or anything of the sort...only that they are using the wrong tools to measure a dimension that can't be reached with the tool set they are using.
You might also find something completely different in meditation. If I find something in direct opposition of what you believe, we can't both be right. Which in case you haven't figured it out, means it isn't "the truth".
It is hard to convey the effects of those experiences to those who have not had them and refuse to consider them, since they have not had such experiences. Since they have not experienced them, they do not exist or are not "true".
No one is denying that people have these experiences, Unicorn. We are pointing out that people have a myriad of differing experiences that directly contradict others. If you are interested in truth, you would take that into account, and realize that they can not all be true, making your experience no more (or less) valid than those of others. The problem arises when you start talking about "truth" being some personal, subjective thing. It isn't.
If my "personal truth" is that Bigfoot is real and lives in the woods next to my house, that doesn't make it true.
There is a difference between philosophy/relative truth and religion - and your stance wasn’t clear. It still isn’t!
Perhaps I am simply an enigma....I am uncertain what it is you are trying to ascertain?
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