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Got it. But you didn't answer the question of this thread.
On your last statement, it depends on how you challenge it on whether i would agree. Sometimes it's challenged very rudely.
What I choose to believe in or not is a boundary that I am allowed to have. How I communicate this boundary is important in the social setting, but should have no impact in religious beliefs or unbelief. If a person can't be civil, they can buzz off. If they don't buzz off, well, then I ignore them.
Not believing in Christianity is not rude. I know you didn't say that. However,when you make claims that Christ is the light of the world, it will be challenged in ways you did not expect.
These challenges will sometimes be rude, over stepping your boundary of your right to believe.
This thread was originally opened on the Christianity subforum. The fact it was moved to R&S does not require a change in the OPs opinion that certain members who visit Christianity discredit Christ.
When he responded to my post #155, the thread was already out of the Christianity sub-forum. Further, as I pointed out, Christians come to the atheist sub-forum and do their dirty work. If it's fair for one, it's fair for both, although I personally don't go in the Christianity sub-forum.
One thing that provokes a desire in me to challenge Christian beliefs is the statement-question "why do you hate God" when I say I do not believe in God or Jesus. That presupposes that I actually do believe in God or Jesus, which I don't.
Another is the claim that God or Jesus is love and all I have to do is give my life to Jesus and he will take care of things and answer prayers and so on. Yet the very person making this statement did not have her prayers answered right in front of my eyes. Where's the evidence? To me, extraordinary powers are being assigned to what is to me an internal 'entity' for want of a better word. Your personal God that exists within your own mind (to which I have no objection) is now all powerful and can do all kinds of amazing things. But there is evidence to the contrary. Nothing amazing ever happens.
I get told that God is all around us and the evidence is in nature around us, yet I see the opposite. I see evidence that there is no creator. I see evidence of the forces of nature, as amazing as it is.
This post is the purpose of the thread I believe. You think unbelief and discrediting are causing the world to sink into darkness. If your message was only about bringing love through the teachings of Christ, and not about scaring people to believe, then you might have a point.
My world has gotten better compared to my time as a child where I grew up in a mostly Christian community. How "Christian" was the community? Let's put it this way. I didn't know people could believe in other faiths or even that they could be unbelievers until I was in high school. To learn of the Jewish faith was shocking. I dislike saying this, but I didn't even know there was a message of love in the Christian faith. I heard the word love, but it's meaning was lost to me for I did not know how to give the gift of love.
What I later realized was that Christainity in my community was mostly a message of fear and punishment. Furthermore, the message included all of the negative effects that resulted from people being ineffective in passing the teachings of Christ. (Do as I say, not as I do.) This includes frustration, distrust, hate, and mental and physical abuse. So therefor, the biggest offenders of my misery were... I am sure you can guess it. So yes, I agree. Christians can mess it up, but I will add, through fear and not through the teaching of love.
What I have learned about love is that many see it as one of many feelings to choose from, like from compartments. In order to take from that compartment, certain requirements must be met. I have found that to be very ineffective. I now understand love to be a way to prevent or redirect undesirable feelings, which includes fear, whether or not requirements are met. I realized this is a learned skill, something my community could not pass on to me, because they had not learned it themselves. So to pass love without expectations being met is a true gift.
Does your god deal with unbelievers with love?
I had a somewhat similar experience. In my home town we had one Jewish family who happened to be the village dentist. While they were treated normally face to face, behind their backs you would constantly hear comments like, "What's wrong with them? You can tell their religion's all wrong...they have to drive all the way up into the big city to find a church (lol) they can go to". And when I was in college I met a girl who said she was B'hai, and I said, "I didn't know you were Jewish". That's how isolated my home town was. We did know about Mormonism since it was the town where Mormonism was first founded, but everything anyone said about Mormonism was negative (such as Joseph Smith was kicked out of Palmyra because he was a horse thief), and the few families in town that were Mormon were shunned. Even us Catholics were considered somewhat second class. And fringe Christian religions were really looked down on -- such as the Assembly Of God. On Wednesdays in the 1950s, kids who belonged to the 4 main Christian churches (Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, and Episcopal) were allowed out of school 1 hour early to attend religious instruction; member of a fringe religion...too bad...stay in school (actually, they were the lucky ones!). Yup, good old fair Christianity.
This post is the purpose of the thread I believe. You think unbelief and discrediting are causing the world to sink into darkness. If your message was only about bringing love through the teachings of Christ, and not about scaring people to believe, then you might have a point.
My world has gotten better compared to my time as a child where I grew up in a mostly Christian community. How "Christian" was the community? Let's put it this way. I didn't know people could believe in other faiths or even that they could be unbelievers until I was in high school. To learn of the Jewish faith was shocking. I dislike saying this, but I didn't even know there was a message of love in the Christian faith. I heard the word love, but it's meaning was lost to me for I did not know how to give the gift of love.
What I later realized was that Christainity in my community was mostly a message of fear and punishment. Furthermore, the message included all of the negative effects that resulted from people being ineffective in passing the teachings of Christ. (Do as I say, not as I do.) This includes frustration, distrust, hate, and mental and physical abuse. So therefor, the biggest offenders of my misery were... I am sure you can guess it. So yes, I agree. Christians can mess it up, but I will add, through fear and not through the teaching of love.
What I have learned about love is that many see it as one of many feelings to choose from, like from compartments. In order to take from that compartment, certain requirements must be met. I have found that to be very ineffective. I now understand love to be a way to prevent or redirect undesirable feelings, which includes fear, whether or not requirements are met. I realized this is a learned skill, something my community could not pass on to me, because they had not learned it themselves. So to pass love without expectations being met is a true gift.
Again, your basing your judgement of Jesus on what others have done.
What if i based my judgement of atheism on what select other atheists have done? It may not be good. But i don't think of doing that because it would be silly.
There's a big difference between doing something in the name of Christianity or in the name of atheism (the former which is common, the latter which is rare) and a Christian doing something or an atheist doing something.
I think you misread what Elyn said. We do notice how Christians behave either when they fall seriously short of what a religion that purports to make people better, should produce, or when they act no different from an atheists - aside from doing their religion, or indeed when it inspires them to be better people. We notice and think about why. But it isn't because it's true.
That is because of the way yhe claims stand up when you apply reason and evidence. It's too easy to get into terying prove religion of non -religion true by pointin ng to 'Look what they do".
I need hardly point out the desperately poor record of Islam in this respect. But that isn't the basis for disbelief. It is the same as for Christianity or any other religion. If the arguments for it being true do not stand up, then it does not deserve belief and dis -belief (atheism) is the default.
It is really quite simple, and the only reason it seems to be so very confusing is because the religious apologists confuse it so as to bamboozle people. Including themselves.
If I may add, the Christians who are most criticized are those who wear their religion on their sleeve and then act un-Christian. We have a number of national figures in that category who set the example.
I am sorry for not being clear. I believe in the message of love. What I don't believe in is fear. Usually, if a person does not believe in Christ, the belief is their soul is in danger. That is the fear I am referring to.
It's interesting that this thread has gotten very few answers to my original question.
Instead, i mostly got more criticism of Christianity. But no reason why.
Go back and read the title you selected for your thread: "why do atheists feel the need to discredit Christ". It is rare that I see atheists on this board discredit Christ in any way. Discredit Christianity, perhaps. Discredit Christians, perhaps. RARELY discredit Christ, whom many of us respect as a wise teacher.
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