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If two or more people meet together, it’s liable to cost money. That’s just the nature of a gathering.
Why? Explain yourself. Simple meeting and talking doesn't involve a meter running. What kind of gospel are you into?
Jesus and the 12 disciples got by just fine in their own communities, and when travelling elsewhere. People opened their homes, people shared food, etc. It's something called community, and what healthy people and groups do.
Spirituality, and communing/praying/sharing/worshipping God, is totally free. Once you drift from that - and start following other ways - you've stepped onto man's path. It's easy to look around and see the lost directions that takes people.
Last edited by Thoreau424; 09-27-2018 at 09:20 AM..
Why? Explain yourself. Simple meeting and talking doesn't involve a meter running. What kind of gospel are you into?
Jesus and the 12 disciples got by just fine in their own communities, and when travelling elsewhere. People opened their homes, people shared food, etc. It's something called community, and what healthy people and groups do.
Spirituality, and communing/praying/sharing/worshipping God, is totally free. Once you drift from that - and start following other ways - you've stepped onto man's path. It's easy to look around and see the lost directions that takes people.
You answered your own question (paragraph 2 above).
I teach a small group Bible study on Thursday nights at a friends house. Our group is 16 adults. Because we don’t want to go late on a weeknight, we meet during dinner time and share a meal (food costs). Our host invested in a few extra fold-up chairs. We support an at-risk ministry for young people (a dew dollars per month per person). The larger the group, the more costs.
My church is ~6,000 people. We have about 30 full-time employees to keep things running. In turn, we serve thousands outside our church through our ministries.
Why? Explain yourself. Simple meeting and talking doesn't involve a meter running. What kind of gospel are you into?
Jesus and the 12 disciples got by just fine in their own communities, and when travelling elsewhere. People opened their homes, people shared food, etc. It's something called community, and what healthy people and groups do.
Spirituality, and communing/praying/sharing/worshipping God, is totally free. Once you drift from that - and start following other ways - you've stepped onto man's path. It's easy to look around and see the lost directions that takes people.
I agree 100% with this in principle. In a true Christian community, it would more like a commune. People would all pitch in as they are able for the basic human needs but the spirituality would not generate a cent of costs.
In our society, a church has been set up as a social organization. THAT is what costs the money. I don't think it's inherently wrong to do it that way, but the "church" should not be requiring money from to do things that a select group wants to do. If people want to do something that has a cost attached, they should give of their own free will. If they don't want to give or can't afford to do so, the building gets shut down, the employees go away, and those who wish to continue change the way they did things. That's all.
The social organization and its established activities should not be confused with the actual spiritual community.
You answered your own question (paragraph 2 above).
I teach a small group Bible study on Thursday nights at a friends house. Our group is 16 adults. Because we don’t want to go late on a weeknight, we meet during dinner time and share a meal (food costs). Our host invested in a few extra fold-up chairs. We support an at-risk ministry for young people (a dew dollars per month per person). The larger the group, the more costs.
My church is ~6,000 people. We have about 30 full-time employees to keep things running. In turn, we serve thousands outside our church through our ministries.
Which is just fine. The problem is when these organizations coerse people with manipulation apologetics. The tithe never had anything to do with wages. It was strictly increase of the herds and fields. The church has bastardized this into coercing it’s followers. It’s all man construct. I would have far more respect for Christian ministries if it were honest and seeked freewill donations and stopped lying with the tithe.
Which is just fine. The problem is when these organizations coerse people with manipulation apologetics. The tithe never had anything to do with wages. It was strictly increase of the herds and fields. The church has bastardized this into coercing it’s followers. It’s all man construct. I would have far more respect for Christian ministries if it were honest and seeked freewill donations and stopped lying with the tithe.
Not all churches coerce their members. My church doesn’t. Our people give because they love God and our church. Some of our members give little or no money.
Not all churches coerce their members. My church doesn’t. Our people give because they love God and our church. Some of our members give little or no money.
So, your church never preaches the tithe doctrine?
So, your church never preaches the tithe doctrine?
Our new/prospective members are taught that God expects the first 10% (a teaching I personally disagree with), but whether members comply is not monitored. Even if we wanted to do such, that would be diffcult information to ascertain.
Our new/prospective members are taught that God expects the first 10% (a teaching I personally disagree with), but whether members comply is not monitored. Even if we wanted to do such, that would be diffcult information to ascertain.
Either continue feeding Midas and admit it openly, or kick him out. The motivation one way or the other will reveal where people's hearts and minds are at.
We all know the power money has with humanity. You can't serve mammon and God together. Drop the pussyfooting and make your damn decision. Quit wasting God's time trying to play both sides.
Last edited by Thoreau424; 09-27-2018 at 12:30 PM..
First of all, churches are indeed set up to operate as social services orgs alongside religious activities; how else does one go about providing for widows, orphans, the poor, etc. as called for by the theology? You can't finance all that stuff by dumpster diving and begging on the streets, it requires an organization, and it requires donors with disposable incomes; Paul practiced a trade while wandering around setting up churches. Full time pastors have to live on something besides hand outs. These services are what attracted Constantine to the sect in the first place. Naturally some pastors are going to be far more successful than others at doing that.
It's a myth that 'true Christians' will be poor dumpster diving beggars n stuff. It's absurd on its face. Most of that error is drawn from the festival days in Jerusalem, when Christians were exhorted to open their homes and share with all; it does not say' give all your stuff away and turn to begging for a living', nor does it say' go forth and mooch off your fellow Christians until you're all starving to death in the streets'.
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