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i wasnt advocating martyrdom, or for people to seek notoriety as martyrs. i like weakness. i use to be the contrary to weakness. contrary to popular belief, pacifism is not an encroach to a mans masculinity
furthermore, pacifism does not require one to be a 'bleeding heart" or emotionally oversensitive.
it is a strength both spiritually and soceitally
Good. 'Pacifism' seem to be a rather blunderbuss word that can mean all sorts of things from peace talks backed up with heavy weaponry to marching into machine -gin fire, holding hands and singing "We shall overcome" in the hopes that the people behind the guns will get sick of it before they run out of peace -martyrs.
As is usual, tell us what you mean by a particular term, and we'll tell you what we think about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius
You grow up fighting everyday because you live in a place of battle, you learn to hit first, I am all for peace, but I know when things are about to get real, and I don't hesitate. Being a pacifist in some places just isn't possible in some places.
Good observation, and in a very imperfect instinct -driven world, that is what we seem to get stuck with. Yet we Know that it isn't good enough, and we Know what we have to do. But we ca't work out how to do it. We need an improved way of thinking.
You grow up fighting everyday because you live in a place of battle, you learn to hit first, I am all for peace, but I know when things are about to get real, and I don't hesitate. Being a pacifist in some places just isn't possible in some places.
i was tired and wearily hesitant to fight a guy and his girlfriend who cheap shot and scratched my eye, blinding my right eye. i was concerned that i was going to be accused falsely of being a neo nazi. ofcourse, this waa yeara ago. the attacker called me a neo nazi and there waa a guy adjacently to the left recording it. he cheap shotted me from the side so i was weary to hit him because his girlffriend was in striking distance. i also had a 50lb hiking bag on, not that i am trying to be tough or stoic.
it is petty adolescent stuff. i am a pacifist because it suits me both soceietally and socially. i believe in peace
Anyone who believes that Christ taught pacifism doesn't know scripture that well. To be sure, he said that those who live by the sword will die by the sword. He also taught us to turn the other cheek.
But when dispatching his followers to spread the news of the Gospel, such teachings did not extend to self-defense. To wit, Luke 22:35-36.
Then Jesus asked them, “When I sent you out without purse or bag or sandals, did you lack anything?” “Nothing,” they answered. "Now, however," He told them, "the one with a purse should take it, and likewise a bag; and the one without a sword should sell his cloak and buy one."
If you accept simple pacifism as Christ's teaching, then this passage is jarring. Yes, your ways should be peaceful. But you also have a right to defend yourself from the attacks of others. Had he not meant that, then there would be no other explanation for this passage.
i was tired and wearily hesitant to fight a guy and his girlfriend who cheap shot and scratched my eye, blinding my right eye. i was concerned that i was going to be accused falsely of being a neo nazi. ofcourse, this waa yeara ago. the attacker called me a neo nazi and there waa a guy adjacently to the left recording it. he cheap shotted me from the side so i was weary to hit him because his girlffriend was in striking distance. i also had a 50lb hiking bag on, not that i am trying to be tough or stoic.
it is petty adolescent stuff. i am a pacifist because it suits me both soceietally and socially. i believe in peace
I believe in peace too, but where I grew up, you couldn't eat lunch or even own a pair of shoes unless you were willing to fight every day, and you know what happens when you don't fight in a place like that? It only gets worse when everyone knows that you wont do anything, you would never eat lunch or have shoes on where I grew up, but greater than this, after you got slapped around and robbed every single day, you will then watch the strong abuse and rob from the weak everyday, and how can somebody just sit and watch a weak person geting robbed and slapped around everyday without standing up for them. Your idea is nobel up to the point of you doing nothing, and evil men rely on good men doing nothing. I mean I would hope that everyone could grow up in a safe place and be pacifists, but that just isn't reality for everyone.
Last edited by Hannibal Flavius; 10-19-2018 at 10:24 AM..
pacifism, an adherence that is found in christianity, judaism and buddhism, is practiced by many people for either religious or social reasons
as one who adheres to pacifism, i was curious if there were other who adhere to pacifism
what is general view of pacifism in regards to religion and society?
As our species advanced and developed more deadly weapons, and as population increased, war became increasingly horrific.
For primitive tribes, war is how they maintain their hunting and gathering territory. Most animals practice some form of territorial defense.
Primitive warfare was dangerous, but it was also a kind of game. It was a test of strength and skill and bravery.
So now, since we have become so advanced, war is really a matter of whose technology is better. Pacifism gradually became more popular, as war became less fun.
Is pacifism really the answer to our dilemma? How can pacifists defend their boundaries? You think you can talk things over and reach agreements?
Ultimately, I don't think so. As soon as there is a problem that words can't solve, war becomes unavoidable.
Religion is always ready to Hi- jack any good stuff and take the credit for it. The Quakers can do what they do, and we goddless bastards will carry on doing what we do - pushing for a secular/Humanist -based society where any beliefs can -co exist but none can dominate. Nor influence nor take the credit for any improvements in the way humans run their lives.
Good point. But I'm obliged to observe that this might have worked with a British Raj and Ghandi knew that he could take advantage of that. If it had been a Russian or Japanese Raj, he'd have been the first to go into a handy ditch , and his followers soon after.
That said, we can learn some lessons at least about Looking Better than the opposition. That's something that the constant whines about atheist aggressiveness, arrogance and rudeness can teach us - engage, respond and be polite, but not mealy -mouthed.
OUTstanding analysis. The Gandhi praisers always seem to forget HOW it worked and on WHOM.
I always remember the story of the Quaker householder who confronted a burglar with a double barrelled shotgun. The burglar said, "But you are a pacifist!" and the Quaker said, "I am, but I am about to discharge this gun into the place where thee are standing and if I were thee I would vacate it."
We are more into conflict resolution than pacifism these days, and John Nash's formulations are finding applications in very interesting ways in the secular world.
Anyone who believes that Christ taught pacifism doesn't know scripture that well. To be sure, he said that those who live by the sword will die by the sword. He also taught us to turn the other cheek.
But when dispatching his followers to spread the news of the Gospel, such teachings did not extend to self-defense. To wit, Luke 22:35-36.
Then Jesus asked them, “When I sent you out without purse or bag or sandals, did you lack anything?” “Nothing,” they answered. "Now, however," He told them, "the one with a purse should take it, and likewise a bag; and the one without a sword should sell his cloak and buy one."
If you accept simple pacifism as Christ's teaching, then this passage is jarring. Yes, your ways should be peaceful. But you also have a right to defend yourself from the attacks of others. Had he not meant that, then there would be no other explanation for this passage.
one can infer that the sword purpose was to entice the disciples temptation. the sword purpose was to test the disciples compacity to forgive love and turn the other cheek
bible:
Matthew 18:21-35 (KJV)
21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.
25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.
26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.
28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.
29 And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.
31 So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
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