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I've always had a hankering for the Knights Templar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift
"Speak softly and carry a big stick?"
I always remember the story of the Quaker householder who confronted a burglar with a double barrelled shotgun. The burglar said, "But you are a pacifist!" and the Quaker said, "I am, but I am about to discharge this gun into the place where thee are standing and if I were thee I would vacate it."
We are more into conflict resolution than pacifism these days, and John Nash's formulations are finding applications in very interesting ways in the secular world.
I always remember the story of the Quaker householder who confronted a burglar with a double-barrelled shotgun. The burglar said, "But you are a pacifist!" and the Quaker said, "I am, but I am about to discharge this gun into the place where thee are standing and if I were thee I would vacate it."
We are more into conflict resolution than pacifism these days, and John Nash's formulations are finding applications in very interesting ways in the secular world.
Anyone who believes that Christ taught pacifism doesn't know scripture that well. To be sure, he said that those who live by the sword will die by the sword. He also taught us to turn the other cheek.
But when dispatching his followers to spread the news of the Gospel, such teachings did not extend to self-defense. To wit, Luke 22:35-36.
Then Jesus asked them, “When I sent you out without purse or bag or sandals, did you lack anything?” “Nothing,” they answered. "Now, however," He told them, "the one with a purse should take it, and likewise a bag; and the one without a sword should sell his cloak and buy one."
If you accept simple pacifism as Christ's teaching, then this passage is jarring. Yes, your ways should be peaceful. But you also have a right to defend yourself from the attacks of others. Had he not meant that, then there would be no other explanation for this passage.
one can infer that the sword purpose was to entice the disciples temptation. the sword purpose was to test the disciples compacity to forgive love and turn the other cheek
the sword purpose was this: to test the disciples compacity to forgive, love, and turn the other cheek in the face of oppresion or adversity.
jesus often told his disciples that they too will "drink from his cup".
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the metaphor "drink from his cup" can be defined as the adversities and unpredictable situation that we may experience in every day life . these everyday life situations can be likend to a test of ones spirituality
bible:
Matthew 18:21-35 (KJV)
21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.
25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.
26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.
28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.
29 And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.
31 So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
Gandhi practiced this and he is proof that it is a successful method based on the teachings of Jesus.
Ghandhi was dealing with a Western democracy that wouldn't indiscriminately murder civilians who were peacefully protesting. The very adoption of pacifism ensured that the Brits would be more or less powerless to do anything but cede to Gandhi's demands.
However, as someone else (I think) pointed out, if Gandhi had been dealing with Imperial Japan, he would have been executed with a swift stroke of a katana.
In other words, pacifism can work in the short term, but if India had become a completely pacifist nation, India would have been forced to become part of Pakistan a long time ago.
If you don't defend your beliefs against those who would force different beliefs onto you, then those who practice pacifism will either be wiped out or converted.
Because there will always be another, more militaristic group, that will see weakness and walk right in.
Now, the practice of pacifism can be a good thing if that ideology is only practiced in regards to aggression, but if it is practiced toward defense as well, pacifism actually becomes an evil ideology, not a good one.
For instance, standing by while someone is raped or killed because your pacifism doesn't allow you to do harm to another individual.
Yet so many animals are pacifist, little is their signs of war or violence among themselves unless they're used to meat or fighting for females. Lacking pacifism runs the risk of wasting energy and weakening oneself as well.
Quote:
noun
1.
a person who believes that war and violence are [ultimately] unjustifiable.
"she was a committed pacifist all her life" synonyms: peace-lover, conscientious objector, passive resister, peacemaker, peacemonger, dove "you know, even pacifists can support their nation's armed forces"
adjective
adjective: pacifist
1.
holding the belief that war and violence are [ultimately] unjustifiable.
If you aren't in peace in your pacifist beliefs, then you have no chance to convert your enemy (unless your enemy is used to meat and is hungry). But sometimes your enemy is not looking to simply eat you alive and is able to live without eating away at you.
When aggression is seen as a type of defense, then we find an unpalatable truth. When we see defense as a type of aggression, then we find another.
What type of aggression are you willing to allow in your enemies? What types of defense do you look to have yourself?
War is not made to maintain war, but to (re)establish peace; peace is not made to revel in weakness but to prepare for War. Constant real war would only mean constant weakening on both sides.
There is nothing evil about not defending yourself. It is a right that all of the just should have. But when you see no one and nothing as deserving then you look to strip that piety in others. To not help another in distress is not made illegal, even if it is unfavorable. Yet evil is supposed to be made illegal. When you are too weak to defend another physically (because you concentrated on different things other than body and strength), you are not in the wrong to be self-aware.
Gandhi practiced this and he is proof that it is a successful method based on the teachings of Jesus.
Successful against British Colonialism. It might even be successful (in some ways) against Roman colonialism. But some enemies aren't motivated by gathering money in peacetime and have other motivations and aspects of their cultures where an enemy's pacifism would merely be an enemy's weakness.
my pacifistic adherance has no poltical motives to fight a state or empire. i just adhere to it. i dont want to accomplish anything by adhereing to it. i dont see it as an encroach to ones masculinity.i am not always a bleeding heart . it suits me. i dont see it as self deprecating. i like it. i dont become angry. i dont want to fight. i feel that my masculinity could be better utilized rescuing people ordoing something to help. i used to fight. now i dont. i like pacifism. also, i think it is morally wrong to harm another person.
Anyone who believes that Christ taught pacifism doesn't know scripture that well. To be sure, he said that those who live by the sword will die by the sword. He also taught us to turn the other cheek.
But when dispatching his followers to spread the news of the Gospel, such teachings did not extend to self-defense. To wit, Luke 22:35-36.
Then Jesus asked them, “When I sent you out without purse or bag or sandals, did you lack anything?” “Nothing,” they answered. "Now, however," He told them, "the one with a purse should take it, and likewise a bag; and the one without a sword should sell his cloak and buy one."
If you accept simple pacifism as Christ's teaching, then this passage is jarring. Yes, your ways should be peaceful. But you also have a right to defend yourself from the attacks of others. Had he not meant that, then there would be no other explanation for this passage.
Almost, but the whole story is about how stupid even his own disciples are that they don't understand his metaphorical teachings and he has to explain it to them. Once they bring two swords and they hurt a Roman slave, he tells them to drop the swords and shows that the swords were a waste because the Romans got them anyway since they had more men and more swords.
The point of the original rhetorical questions was obvious: "Did you lack anything? Then why do you think you lack a means of defense? Still, we need swords to look bad." Yet we know the Romans were then merciful to his sword-wielding followers for some reason (because the Romans had a pagan religion that made them merciful and militaristic so they respected sword ownership?).
Quote:
22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
22:33 And he said unto him, Lord, I am ready to go with thee, both into prison, and to death.
22:34 And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the **** shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me.
22:35 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.
22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
22:37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.
22:38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.
22:39 And he came out, and went, as he was wont, to the mount of Olives; and his disciples also followed him.
22:40 And when he was at the place, he said unto them, Pray that ye enter not into temptation.
Clearly, the story is about Jesus knowing that they would be blamed as transgressors SIMPLY if they bought and stored weapons, and Jesus prayed that they would not use the weapons since that would cause more destruction all around and supposedly he just wanted to be blamed as a trouble-making peacebreaker (revolutionary) in order to complete his assisted suicide and resurrection show ritual for some unknown and "very necessary" reason.
They do say that people hunger for peace but thirst for blood and war.
Last edited by LuminousTruth; 10-19-2018 at 10:47 PM..
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